The welfare state

[rainman]

Although I do advocate intervention in markets in order to weed out the parasites.

Which, fascinating as it is, has nothing to do with reducing consumer debt, which I believe was the point.

But it doesn't. It’s been going down since 2000.

Comprehension fail.

That there is a small drop since 2000 (likely adjusted out again by 2011) makes no odds. The chart is a trivial dismissal of your point, given your lack of provided evidence in support of your view: income was more evenly distributed in 1985, when that GINI series began. Therefore it is now worse than then, and your statement is false.

What’s more if that’s your idea of history it’s a fucking short baseline, where’s the rest of this century?

Well, feel free to bring some real stats to support your view in the long term then. Or continue to believe shit without any evidence, whatever - but don't mind me calling you on being an ideologue, then.

If you mean to assert that feudal income distribution was worse than today, then yes, of course. But so fucking what?

So when you’re ungrateful enough to bitch about the lack of charity from those who actually generate income and demand that they produce more then that’s not idealism?

At no point have I done any such thing.

It's tiresome debating with you: you contradict yourself, make shit up, provide no evidence, propose crazy untested theories, tilt at strawmen... no wonder you're so fucking gullible and believe the shit you do. I give up, have fun in crazy world.

[Winston001]

This might be a very simplistic idea but why don't we just keep what we earn? Pay for the things we use, yes they might be higher but if we don't use them we are not being charged...

This point is worth considering in a modified sense.

Back to basics: individual income tax is actually a very new idea and has only been imposed by governments for about the last 100 years.

Prior to that tax was imposed on wealth, death duties, land holdings, the number of windows a building had, stamp duty, sales tax etc. Ordinary people did not personally pay tax.

I don't suggest we return to that but some economists are now thinking high sales taxes (GST at 25%) and low flat income taxes - say 20-25% are a better mix. Something to consider.

[Brian d marge]

Remember its the old people that cost the money ...we would save at least half of Social welfare just by getting rid of Old people

Stephen

[Pussy]

Remember its the old people that cost the money ...we would save at least half of Social welfare just by getting rid of Old people

Stephen

Except that most of them have paid a poultice of tax over the years, and are entitled to more than they get now....

[Winston001]

Except that most of them have paid a poultice of tax over the years, and are entitled to more than they get now....

Yeah? That's what a lot of pensioners believe. Tell me - where did the money for the very first old-age pensions come from?

[FJRider]

Yeah? That's what a lot of pensioners believe. Tell me - where did the money for the very first old-age pensions come from?

There WERE strings attached though ... perhaps the "modern" goverments might take lessons ... oh ... in answer to your question ... General taxation ... and where does Welfare (WINZ) get their money from ... ???

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/old-age-...asses-into-law

[short-circuit]

Where did smokeu disappear to?

[avgas]

You mean work or die?

I used to think that statement was a bit cold. But some years ago when I had a "need" to be looked after - there was nothing.
So now all I think is fuck em. If they can't work they can die - they are stealing all my oxygen and giving nothing back to mankind.
Stews simple rule is this, I am not above anyone - and none of you fuckers are above me. Apparently it means "equality" but most people who put that into a sentence seem to forget its meaning.
If I have to work, guess what the rest of you have to do
Get back to work ya bums! Hell you can even get paid to post in forums these days.

Oh and before I hear the woe is me's - telling me some people cant work. Bullshit, I have had retards serve me at McD's (fantastic service by the way - made the normals seem even more special). If you are blind, you can still see. Paraplegics still get around. Deaf can still communicate. Why can't single mums still work?

[Winston001]

There WERE strings attached though ... perhaps the "modern" goverments might take lessons ... oh ... in answer to your question ... General taxation ...

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/old-age-...asses-into-law

Yessss...so people didn't pay tax in those days for a future pension?

[avgas]

Where did smokeu disappear to?

He's off to get a job.

[FJRider]

Yessss...so people didn't pay tax in those days for a future pension?

Prior to the introduction of that piece of law ... NO ... !!! .. the first country in the British Empire to do so ...

I'm not even sure if this was before women got the vote either ... care to enlighten me ... ???

[Brian d marge]

The Pension should follow ACC , risk and income assessed, In a society that one should stand on their own two feet, and make provisions for their retirement. I dont see why my taxes should be used .....

Far better using that money for the productive members of society

Stephen

[FJRider]

Yessss...so people didn't pay tax in those days for a future pension?

Job: 21..22 I'm not that religious ... but ... it is appropriate ...

[FJRider]

The Pension should follow ACC , risk and income assessed, In a society that one should stand on their own two feet, and make provisions for their retirement. I dont see why my taxes should be used .....

Far better using that money for the productive members of society

Stephen

NOT the one's that WERE productive for fifty years ... and/or serving at least one world war ... ???

[Brian d marge]

NOT the one's that WERE productive for fifty years ... and/or serving at least one world war ... ???

should have saved the money ...if its good enough for me then its good enough for them

Stephen