New Zealand bike prices WTF

[jaffaonajappa]

thanks for calling me a moron.

While it wasnt me that did that....I do want to note....its getting tiresome, people posting on these forums about how baaaaad it is in NZ, and how great it is everywhere else. The whingers just need to shut up and move out, and let the rest of us get on with living in the most beautiful land in the world. The 'cost' of living in the the most beautiful land? - perhaps its the prices we pay for things made in the ugly and polluted lands.

[sfordnz]

While it wasnt me that did that....I do want to note....its getting tiresome, people posting on these forums about how baaaaad it is in NZ, and how great it is everywhere else. The whingers just need to shut up and move out, and let the rest of us get on with living in the most beautiful land in the world. The 'cost' of living in the the most beautiful land? - perhaps its the prices we pay for things made in the ugly and polluted lands.

i know what your saying, it's just hard work living in chch and no i can't just leave, unless you wanna swap houses and jobs but then i'd have to live in auckland, i guess i could down grade from mud and broken stuff to jaffaland

what i was trying to say and the misunderstood point because i'm crap at writing stuff they way i meen it was that we live in this place yet we let people like dealers tell us what we should expect...... like 16k for a chinese bmw because we are soooooo far away and sooooo different to the rest of the world.
when we can at one click prove them wrong.... like 10k for a chinese bmw.
i know that there are costs and every other reason but its not good enough
bike shops a going broke and they think the way to trade out of it is to inflate the price and that means less riders, less riders means smaller voice which means the more we get fucked by "THE MAN" which means less buyers of new bikes and all we the public do is click and it arrives half price from over seas
(my brother got his new helmut from the uk in 5 days $250 local price $560 if it had have been $300 here he would have brought it here .. everones got a story like this)
how about this..... dealer sells one at 16k makes 5k profit, good or dealer sells 4 at 12k makes 5k profit then has an ongoing income from servicing and parts, better
maybe then bike shops will be what the should be places owned by bike riders who just wanna make a living doing what they like without the flash car and the flash building with the white tiles on the floor an big titted girl at the desk in leather pants ,,, maybe they can keep the girl
not places for wankers selling t shirts and coffee
these places do exist (refer dirt action saxon st chch) and they are cool


rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

[jaffaonajappa]

rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

Nah mate, your all good. Perhaps difficult to see exactly what your point was to start with, but yeah, your pretty much on the mark.

The fellas on the site that go abusing others like that, 'name calling' whatever - they're armchair internet heroes usually, and not to be seen anywhere when the cards fall in real life. Well often thats the case....

Whinging. To be honest mate, if your living in Chch....your entitled to a bit of a whine.

[Ocean1]

bikes are supplied to dealers payment free for a period....... Of say... 3 months, after which the dealer either pays for them

Mate, almost every other business in NZ would kill for terms like that. You're basically saying there's too many dealers for the number of bikes sold. It may be in the distributors interest to maintain that situation, but why should the market pay extra to bolster shops that aren't otherwise viable?

There's always a reason NZ prices are higher, but they usually smell mighty like excuses to me.

[Big Dave]

I'd love some bastard to explain it to me in simple terms.

There's no cahunt here so shit costs more.

[jaffaonajappa]

There's no cahunt here so shit costs more.

BD, your a cunning bugger....

[Big Dave]

Fixed.

[BMWST?]

i know what your saying, it's just hard work living in chch and no i can't just leave, unless you wanna swap houses and jobs but then i'd have to live in auckland, i guess i could down grade from mud and broken stuff to jaffaland

what i was trying to say and the misunderstood point because i'm crap at writing stuff they way i meen it was that we live in this place yet we let people like dealers tell us what we should expect...... like 16k for a chinese bmw because we are soooooo far away and sooooo different to the rest of the world.
when we can at one click prove them wrong.... like 10k for a chinese bmw.
i know that there are costs and every other reason but its not good enough
bike shops a going broke and they think the way to trade out of it is to inflate the price and that means less riders, less riders means smaller voice which means the more we get fucked by "THE MAN" which means less buyers of new bikes and all we the public do is click and it arrives half price from over seas
(my brother got his new helmut from the uk in 5 days $250 local price $560 if it had have been $300 here he would have brought it here .. everones got a story like this)
how about this..... dealer sells one at 16k makes 5k profit, good or dealer sells 4 at 12k makes 5k profit then has an ongoing income from servicing and parts, better
maybe then bike shops will be what the should be places owned by bike riders who just wanna make a living doing what they like without the flash car and the flash building with the white tiles on the floor an big titted girl at the desk in leather pants ,,, maybe they can keep the girl
not places for wankers selling t shirts and coffee
these places do exist (refer dirt action saxon st chch) and they are cool


rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

i bet the dealers would absolutley love to have a 5k margin on a 16 k bike..

[tigertim20]

serious question, why dont people open up specific, to-order motorcycle importing businesses, where a customer can pay a nominal fee to a company which imports excess overseas stock, landing the customer a new bike at a price substantially discounted from the standard NZ floor price?

Would covering manufacturer warranties be an issue if the bike is sourced overseas, or would the manufacturer still have to honour factory warranties via a local brand specific agent, even if that agent wasnt responsible for the sale?

[Metastable]

To answer your question.... the manufacturers can do what they want. Over here, some do not honour warranties if the bike was bought in the US, but some do. I don't think the warranties are a big deal anyway. Most of these products are pretty reliable. Plus if you could pay 3,000 less for something, you could probably fix a problem for less than that anyway.

Also, over here some OEMs do not let their dealers sell new bikes to Canadians.

I was actually amazed at how many motorcycle shops you guys have down there. Most of ours died in the last few years. Honda decided to introduce their "powerhouse" concept (all Honda products under 1 roof) and pulled bikes from the existing motorcycle shops. Now the whole industry here is a mess. The powerhouse concepts are not working and many of the motorcycle dealers that use to sell Hondas have since closed.

There is another variable too.... how much do the OEMs charge the dealers in New Zealand vs other countries? Part of the problem could be the OEMs themselves. Dunno. I wouldn't go blaming the dealers right away.... there are lots of variables here.

Also - what are your import duties on Motorcycles?

[SS90]

Mate, almost every other business in NZ would kill for terms like that. You're basically saying there's too many dealers for the number of bikes sold. It may be in the distributors interest to maintain that situation, but why should the market pay extra to bolster shops that aren't otherwise viable?

There's always a reason NZ prices are higher, but they usually smell mighty like excuses to me.

floor plans, plain and simple, are a necessary evil for the motorcycle industry.... in accounting terms, a business needs to be making a 20% return to be worthwhile..... I assure you, few bike shops achieve that.

If a bike shop was to have all the units in stock, paid for, the investment (in stock alone) would be unbelievable, quite simply, the director(s) of said bike shop would be better off investing the $400,000 it would cost to have even a basic model range in something that made a resonable return.... like property....or a hotdog stand.... or a bar.

The fact remains, floor plans are (almost) the only reason we have any dealers in NZ at all.... and the number of dealers in NZ is (still) too high.... like natural selection, the strong are surviving (strong meaning established), the weak are being devoured.

[sfordnz]

i bet the dealers would absolutley love to have a 5k margin on a 16 k bike..

what is the margin?

[SS90]

what is the margin?

A "good" dealer margin is something like 18%, but most of the time it is considerably less...... On a 20k bike expect something like $1500 - $2000 as a margin.... That's before you enter the "trade-in" in to the equation..... That's why many dealers are reluctant to do trade-ins at all..... Let alone what some (most) punters want/expect.

The majority of the new bike margins are well below the 20% mark, so "the whole package" is required to make a bike shop tick.... Workshop, parts department, accessories..... They all need to be operated profitability, just to "prop up" the sales departments..... This concept is worldwide by the way, which is why NZ bike shops charge quite high labour rates these days.... Even compared to 5 years ago.... They simply have to to cover the shortfall from the weak retail sales, and their puney margins..... Ever noticed the mark up on Beer in a pub..... We need a "kiwidrinker" website we can discuss that on.

[lakedaemonian]

To answer your question.... the manufacturers can do what they want. Over here, some do not honour warranties if the bike was bought in the US, but some do. I don't think the warranties are a big deal anyway. Most of these products are pretty reliable. Plus if you could pay 3,000 less for something, you could probably fix a problem for less than that anyway.

Also, over here some OEMs do not let their dealers sell new bikes to Canadians.

I was actually amazed at how many motorcycle shops you guys have down there. Most of ours died in the last few years. Honda decided to introduce their "powerhouse" concept (all Honda products under 1 roof) and pulled bikes from the existing motorcycle shops. Now the whole industry here is a mess. The powerhouse concepts are not working and many of the motorcycle dealers that use to sell Hondas have since closed.

There is another variable too.... how much do the OEMs charge the dealers in New Zealand vs other countries? Part of the problem could be the OEMs themselves. Dunno. I wouldn't go blaming the dealers right away.... there are lots of variables here.

Also - what are your import duties on Motorcycles?

Personally, I think the Honda Powerhouse concept COULD have worked had there simply been a limited number of Powerhouse Honda dealers(maybe manin dealer point running 1 or more associated minimal satellite points), and FORMER Honda(non Car) dealers....meaning sack a heap of dealer points.

The problem I see is that due to the number of independant dealer points.....a Honda dealer is competing more against his/her fellow Honda dealers, than against the other brands....same goes for Suzuki, etc.

A great example is what's been happening in the US.

While many would perceive US manufactured cars to be of inferior quality to Japanese the facts show that the differences are often quite negligible in terms of build quality and reliability.

The biggest differences I see are the fact that Toyota dealers in the US typically sell 3-6 times as many cars as the average Chevy dealer for example(based on figures from approx 2008-2009 when I last ran the maths).

So the average Toyota dealer was selling quite a few more cars than the average Chevy dealer, with increased likelihood of profitability and reduced likelihood of cannobalized sales between Totota dealers when compared with Chevy for example.

So Toyota dealers were/are competing against Chevy dealers.....while Chevy dealers were/are competing against OTHER Chevy dealers.....resulting in a downward spiral of competing on price, not quality.....and unable to compete on service....since they no longer have the profits to invest in a high level of service.

Having the right number of dealer points is key.......my opinion of the NZ motorcycle industry hasn't changed in the 10+ years I've been involved in it....too many dealer points.

As far as bike pricing goes....manufacturers/distributors are big supertankers trying to maneuver through a minefield of currency cross-rate volatility between 1st world nations that is simply insane.

Look at the relationship between the NZ Dollar and the US Dollar......in 2000 the Kiwi bought 0.40 US cents.........today it buys over 0.80 US cents...more than double....and it's been a rather crazy roller coaster ride up and down along the way.

It's hard to manage actual/perceived product value new and 2nd hand in such an environment.

It's like playing the game of monopoly when every roll of the dice to move your piece the value of your property AND currency changes unexpectedly with every 3rd roll.

We live in interesting times.......and the advent of the internet combined with the ability to quickly(and relatively cheaply) ships high value, small cube products around the world overnight really brings this currency volatility to the fore for enthusiasts of motorcycling, hunting, scuba-diving, photography, etc, etc, etc.

It's worth mentioning that it wasn't all that long ago that it simply wouldn't have been feasible for nearly everyone to import their own anything...not because of the lack of the internet or lack of overnight shipping, but the lack of foreign currency or legal financial freedom to do so.

What does the future hold?

Hopefully some reduced volatility and increased financial stability....but I suspect it will get crazier(meaning possibly better deals....or NO deals if you live in the next Argentina) before it improves.

The smart, agile, and lucky will survive....the stupid, slow, and unlucky will perish.

[Big Dave]

Suggested retail prices don't even fix it. They buy the business with the Trade in.