"Call the effing police then - it's a free ride home"

[blackdog]

You don't need to beat them up, if you do grab them you can simply trip over, or they pull you over in the struggle, and fall on top of them, the damage is done as you were trying to break your fall...

That's what I said. I slipped over with a can of primer in my hand and 'accidentally' shot half of it up his until that point virgin shitter.

I doubt I would have the courtesy to find a nozzle first.

[Banditbandit]

give the little arseholes a reason to cry. too many kids right now are brought up in this 'I can do ANYTHING I want to, and if you so much as lay a finger on me, I can have you charged with child abuse' attitude.They think they can do whatever they want.
The shock of getting a proper solid bootup the ass might beenough to make them fearfull of doing such things again. clearly they arent getting 'discipline' at home,so someone needs to give it to them

Just picked as a random sample .. (I deliberately removed the names because I'm responding to the tone of this thread, not any individual)

Jeez you people have no clues. Don't you think that these kids have been hit at home? It's likely they come from families who hit them all the time - and the relationship between action and punishment is none existent, because they have probably been hit for things they didn't do as well as tings they did do. FOr them violence is random, sudden and always expected. They've probably been hit just because Mum and Dad were drunk ...

How do you think hitting them again is going to help? Taffy Hotene (brutal rapist/murderer) as a kid slept under his house (appalling) went to school covered in bruises and stole other kids food and money .. surprise surprise. Plenty of other examples ..

It's likely these kids hate the police because the police have raided the house and possibly taken Dad (and maybe even Mum) away to jail ... taking Dad to jail may not be a bad thing - but they don't see it that way.

They've learnt defiance of authority from the parents - who are defiant to the police and other authorities when they turn up at the house ... and they are "street savvy" - they know the "rules" because they are cunning and can use it to survive - and it's about survival - nothing else. When survival is the ONLY thing then there really are no rules ..

.Its so damn simple,when about 6-7 i pinched a bit of change out of the old ladys purse,got caught then suffered the old mans belt later that day,never ever pinched anything again...ever.Looking back the shame i felt was actually worse than the belt round my arse.

That's a telling comment - these kids will feel no shame from being hit - either by their parents or by anyone else ... it's something that probably happens every day - they are not big enough to hit back - YET - but when they are God help us all.

The punishment by your parents was also balanced by the love you no doubt felt. These kids have never felt love from their parents - and they feel no love back ... They live in a very bleak world ... where do you think the espression "Fuck The World" comes from and what it means ... for some of us that was what we truly thought ... and some stil think it ... and these kids won't get any better by more hitting and then jail ..

Ive been working in day care centres the last year and I swear you can tell the potential jail bait even at age 3 and up. Aggressive wee smart arses that randomly belt the snot out of other kids, don't know how to join in, spit food, swear and kick teachers and I hate to stereotype here but certain kids in kindies in lower socio economic areas are the worst

Sad isn't it that in pre-school they are like this. They feel threatened at every turn - they have probably been regularly hit by their parents and never been cuddled or felt loved. They likely have older siblings who regularly beat them up - it will be a pecking order in their home and they have to fight for what they have - food, clothes, bed space even. They are already defiant of authority - at 3-years-old. What a bleak loveless world they live in ...

These children have never been loved and they have no idea of what that might even be like. They can't relate top other children except as competition/threat ... they don't relate to adults, because all adults do is hit them, yell at them ..

Do you cuddle them often? It's what they need ..

[tigertim20]

sorry bandit, but the presumption that every child involved in violence or crime has come from a poor/bad/violent family is frankly a naieve one. plenty of little arseholes come from well to do, or middle class families, many have parents that go out of their way to do everything they can to help them. Some kids just dont give a fuck, and do what they want, when they want, and while it is a fairly accurate statistic that children who act this way are slightly more likely tocome from a lower socio-economic bracket, there is little difference between those who have families that genuinely care, and those who do not.
Ive worked with at risk youth, as well as seen first hand examples fairly close to home where someone is given every bit of love, support, and guidance a kid could ask for, but has made the decision to grow up angry, and go out commit crime and shitting on people without remorse.
You suggest that they might get hit at home, and as such there is no point in hitting them now, because they have no idea what 'punishment' is because they get hit either way. well the problem with that is that you are essentially saying 'because they dont know what punishment is, or what it is meted out for, there's no point punishing them at all'.
To go the PC route and give them a talking to means nothing, theyll see you as weak, tell you to get fucked and go and do it again. If they have been brought up not knowing the concept of punishment then its our job to teach it to them. a boot up the arse, and 'the fuck you think youre doing breaking in and stealing shit from me' and making it clear what action has caused the reaction is a good start, and for many of these kids who have chosen this route, violence is the ONLY language they understand. they dont have the ability to understand in socially acceptable terms, so you have to speak to them on THEIR level, and THEN work from there once you have their attention to try and instill a more socially acceptable set of behaviour.

[Indiana_Jones]

Just picked as a random sample .. (I deliberately removed the names because I'm responding to the tone of this thread, not any individual)

Jeez you people have no clues. Don't you think that these kids have been hit at home? ..............

Do you cuddle them often? It's what they need ..

Are we meant to feel sorry for them?

They might actually get some sympathy if they stop stealing shit that isn't theirs....

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

sorry bandit, but the presumption that every child involved in violence or crime has come from a poor/bad/violent family is frankly a naieve one.

I never made that assumption - the assumption that they come from good homes is equally wrong

plenty of little arseholes come from well to do, or middle class families, many have parents that go out of their way to do everything they can to help them. Some kids just dont give a fuck, and do what they want, when they want, and while it is a fairly accurate statistic that children who act this way are slightly more likely tocome from a lower socio-economic bracket, there is little difference between those who have families that genuinely care, and those who do not.
Ive worked with at risk youth, as well as seen first hand examples fairly close to home where someone is given every bit of love, support, and guidance a kid could ask for, but has made the decision to grow up angry, and go out commit crime and shitting on people without remorse.

Yes - I agree. I've seen those too

You suggest that they might get hit at home, and as such there is no point in hitting them now, because they have no idea what 'punishment' is because they get hit either way. well the problem with that is that you are essentially saying 'because they dont know what punishment is, or what it is meted out for, there's no point punishing them at all'.

Yes, I am aware of that - it's a problem.

To go the PC route and give them a talking to means nothing, theyll see you as weak, tell you to get fucked and go and do it again.

No disagreement there.

If they have been brought up not knowing the concept of punishment then its our job to teach it to them. a boot up the arse, and 'the fuck you think youre doing breaking in and stealing shit from me' and making it clear what action has caused the reaction is a good start, and for many of these kids who have chosen this route, violence is the ONLY language they understand. they dont have the ability to understand in socially acceptable terms, so you have to speak to them on THEIR level, and THEN work from there once you have their attention to try and instill a more socially acceptable set of behaviour.

I also agree .. I'm certainly not in favour of the PC route as you seem to think. I think by the time they reach adulthood and they are still like that, then basically bang them up and throw away the key - it's probably too late.

Before that? Depends on the kid - many different approaches and they work with some and not with others ..

What success rate do you have with the kids you work with?

[Banditbandit]

Are we meant to feel sorry for them?

They might actually get some sympathy if they stop stealing shit that isn't theirs....

-Indy

No. But understanding them MIGHT mean we can work out what to do with the little shits ... Sometimes it's beyond me .. I can see the reasons and the background .. fuck knows what the answer is ... I'm not of the PC brigade - give them a good talking to, but neither am I of the "boot in the arse" school of thought - I've seen both responses fail ...

[Bald Eagle]

Sterilise them and their parents, prevent another generation.

[Banditbandit]

Sterilise them and their parents, prevent another generation.

Sometimes I think that's the only viable option ...

[Indiana_Jones]

No. But understanding them MIGHT mean we can work out what to do with the little shits ... Sometimes it's beyond me .. I can see the reasons and the background .. fuck knows what the answer is ... I'm not of the PC brigade - give them a good talking to, but neither am I of the "boot in the arse" school of thought - I've seen both responses fail ...

Well I may not be as understanding as you, but I agree with your POV.

The touchy feely approach has failed, I reckon breakin' rocks in the hot sun would work better

-Indy

[allycatz]

Just picked as a random sample ..





Sad isn't it that in pre-school they are like this. They feel threatened at every turn - they have probably been regularly hit by their parents and never been cuddled or felt loved. They likely have older siblings who regularly beat them up - it will be a pecking order in their home and they have to fight for what they have - food, clothes, bed space even. They are already defiant of authority - at 3-years-old. What a bleak loveless world they live in ...

These children have never been loved and they have no idea of what that might even be like. They can't relate top other children except as competition/threat ... they don't relate to adults, because all adults do is hit them, yell at them ..

Do you cuddle them often? It's what they need ..

The kids will often push you away until they trust you. Once they do they will sidle up and snuggle in for a story or a hug. I wouldn't say they haven't been loved but I suspect that many are left to there own devices to amuse themselves and live along their parents rather than 'with' them.

[schrodingers cat]

Just picked as a random sample ...

Civilization is an complex concept.
We are violent predatory animals - highly territorial.
Over time it has become accepted that continual conflict prevents anybody from enjoying a better standard of living.

Essentially social behaviour is an unspoken contract that says 'If you promise not to shit on my couch I won't shit on yours'

Some people, as you say, don't have a couch. They resent the people who do. We have taught these people that if you don't have a couch there is no need to WORK to EARN a couch, a couch will be provided for you. But still they resent that their's is vinyl and yours is leather

Some people exist in the realm where they can shit on your couch but you won't do the same or it is back to square one.

The police exist to maintain standards of behaviour in society but they are CUNTS (reference - every speeding post on here)

So, society is very safe. The couch shitters have RIGHTS. They know their RIGHTS. They demand their RIGHTS before yours. They are more of a victim than you will ever be.

I'm liberal enough to understand that these poor dears don't have good role models to set standards for them. I understand they are alienated and have low self-esteem. I also know that until they were taught to say alienated and self esteem since they never spent enough time in school learning what society expects of them.
As long as there is an industry telling them 'It isn't your fault' they will continue to be victims and a drain on the rest of society.

So it a previous post I avdocated waterboarding. Violence hurts but bring back the fear.

Carrot AND a stick. A BIG fucking stick. A scary stick.

Your choice.

Because life is a choice and a wrong choice bites you. Or should.

[Indiana_Jones]

Carrot AND a stick. A BIG fucking stick. A scary stick.

The sort of stick you could roger a horse with

-Indy

[schrodingers cat]

The sort of stick you could roger a horse with

-Indy

Thats right! Be like the horse - "I'll just have the carrot please"

Just thinking, be no good if a horse shitted on your couch

[fuknKIWI]

So very true, there was an article in the harold a few years ago on this. A kid who had been taken home by the police so often that they didn't need to ask where he lived, when he turned 18 they caught him again & the judge gave him 4 years,after a few weeks the kid told the guards that he had had enough & wanted out, the guards told him he could get out in 3 years & 10 months. the kid hanged himself in prison.

Gotta love a happy ending, more rope anybody...

[fuknKIWI]

The touchy feely approach has failed, I reckon breakin' rocks in the hot sun would work better

-Indy

Australia doesn't want them...