Police killing us again!

[Max Preload]

Gee, who'd have thought the cops would have whitewashed it?

[MIXONE]

Nobody wins in cases like this.

Agreed with this.

[MSTRS:Me]

Gee, who'd have thought the cops would have whitewashed it?

Ya gotta wonder, eh? The Buller cop resigned...oops, I mean, retired...before the case went to court. So he wasn't part of the 'team' anymore...

[maxlev]

A few months after Buller Gorge U-turn, 2 bikers hospitalised for eons,
a Beamer hit a U-turn quota gatherer at Maramarua,
cop asked injured rider what direction he was travelling,
anyone remember the outcome?
treated like Joe Bloggs or wet bus ticket torture?

[Number One]

NOTHING would have made things right - regardless of penalty.

BTW: Best way to kill somebody in NZ is on the road - penalties seem to be way lighter than in any other non-road circumstances..

Agree completely no amount of 'hand slap/fine/jail time' IS EVER ENOUGH EVEN when the victim is NOT killed. Re the second point - why is this NOT changing? Why does someone who kills a puppy get more jail time than a pedofile and how come you can kill someone on the roads and NOT go to jail and just get a fine and some imaginary points taken off your license. Not really questions I want you to answer Scummy - I just wonder why NZ is effing soft on this stuff....

And everybody expects cops to be the best shot, the best driver, the most PC, the most polite

With great power comes great responsibliity though don't ya think? Personally I don't think it's out of line to expect every Police officer to behave in a way that is completely above reproach when they are exercising their duties. If one shit cop behaving badly has the power to bring negative attention to ALL others and in training you are told - sokay you just a normal person after all then doesn't that make positive public perceptions that much harder to win? Shouldn't the public be entitled to expect that level of professionalism from our law enforcement officials?? Despite the fact that they are just normal people under their uniforms and badges? Most organisations expect that level of behaviour from their workforce after all.

BTW not having a go Scummy I am genuinely interested in the idea exchange.

[MarkH]

No the ute is not irrelevant. It was his speed that started this whole unfortunate incident. What is it that you do not understand about this.
No speeding ute
No need for a Police chase
No U-Turn
No subsequent crash
Simple as that!!

What you don't understand is that the cop decided to attempt a U-turn in a stupid place and that was his bad decision alone - the Ute driver wasn't involved in that decision. If the cop had continued a short distance on that road and safely turned around then none of this would have happened.

Even the cop himself wasn't arguing that "it wasn't my fault that I attempted the U-turn where I did, the ute driver made me do it" so I don't get why you are trying to present this ridiculous argument for him.

[Robbo]

I understand your point, however, whatever triggered the cop to do a U turn, he still had a responsibility to the general public to undertake his duties in a safe manner.

Yes, i agree nadroj. My original post was a hypothetical overview of the situation before it occured and the three "what if's" that may have avoided this tragic accident.
Unfortunately it did not turn out this way and resulted in the loss of Pauls life.
As for the U-turn, i certainly don't condone it given the location from a blind hill and the penalty that was handed out does not, in my opinion, reflect the seriousness of the event nor act as a future deterrant.
I do hope that all the publicity that this case has attracted causes the motoring public to be more aware and diligant in regard to performing U-turns in the future as they are a major cause for concern for all bike riders.

[Robbo]

What you don't understand is that the cop decided to attempt a U-turn in a stupid place and that was his bad decision alone - the Ute driver wasn't involved in that decision. If the cop had continued a short distance on that road and safely turned around then none of this would have happened.

Even the cop himself wasn't arguing that "it wasn't my fault that I attempted the U-turn where I did, the ute driver made me do it" so I don't get why you are trying to present this ridiculous argument for him.

With due respect Mark, you obviously did'nt read correctly or understand my first post. If the ute driver had'nt been speeding in the first place then the cop would never have been attempting to make a u-turn to chase him.
So don't go assuming that i am making excuses for him. Think before you post.

[Blackflagged]

Speeding and pursuits are common.But not usually with these results.

[bogan]

Court imposed penalties rarely reflect the circumstances of what happened. Even if they had fined him a million dollars, it wouldn't have brought the rider back.

Penalty needs to reflect the level of carelessness, the outcome, the pointlessness of penalties in cases like this, lots of things.

All of that said, $250 appears manifestly inadequate. I just don't know what would have made any difference in the circumstances.

Nobody wins in cases like this.

What I wanted to see, was enough of a deterrent to make others think about where they do their u-turns, and a change in policy to ensure others lives are not put at risk by careless u-turns in future. Instead it's just a slap on the wrist, shit happens, as you were.

How many more close calls, injuries, and deaths will be required before the system realises changes are required?

[riffer]

You've hit the nail on the head Bogan.

It's not about this case, or the one in Buller Gorge.

It's about the Police Pursuit Policy fullstop.

[_Shrek_]

Going back to the Buller incident....
That cop was eventually pinged for a dangerous manoeuvre and ordered to pay $30,000 to each rider (if I remember right).
The point is, the parallels between the 2 cases almost exactly line-up. So why, oh why, was the Te Kawhata cop only fined $250??

What I wanted to see, was enough of a deterrent to make others think about where they do their u-turns, and a change in policy to ensure others lives are not put at risk by careless u-turns in future.

two good points here, tarring the hole force etc.. is not going to change what happened
yes the ute was speeding, the bike had an un warrentable tyre, "BUT" it doesn't change the fact the the cop in Q stuffed up big time & the result was a fellow biker was killed & the justice system needs to front up

[rebyl]

I guess this proves that according to the judges and the Police Hi Racky, bikers lives are not worth shit but covering the arses of those that do harm is very important....say Hi to him if you see him in Paeroa...bet he gets posted soon....

[Katman]

You've hit the nail on the head Bogan.

It's not about this case, or the one in Buller Gorge.

It's about the Police Pursuit Policy fullstop.

Let's not forget, it's just as much about our own conduct on the road.

[scumdog]

I guess this proves that according to the judges and the Police Hi Racky, bikers lives are not worth shit but covering the arses of those that do harm is very important....say Hi to him if you see him in Paeroa...bet he gets posted soon....

Are you saying that the dead bikers lives are worth more than a non-biker lives?????

Or were you including all road users with bikers???