How the fuck did he walk free?

[onearmedbandit]

I understand that none of us are aware of the full facts.

I understand that none of us know anything other than what the media have passed on.

What I don't understand (and remember now folks, this is just my perspective) is how someone innocent of sexually assaulting their daughter would admit to it to get a lesser charge? I have two daughters, 5 and 12, and if I ever found myself falsely accused of sexually assaulting them I would never lie and say 'yes I did it'. Not for their sake and most certainly not for mine.

Ok so I've never been in that situation, so I can't know for sure how I would react. But I'd rather die than live admitting guilt just to please the fucking system. Life (to me) is nothing without principles.

[blackdog]

I understand that none of us are aware of the full facts.

I understand that none of us know anything other than what the media have passed on.

What I don't understand (and remember now folks, this is just my perspective) is how someone innocent of sexually assaulting their daughter would admit to it to get a lesser charge? I have two daughters, 5 and 12, and if I ever found myself falsely accused of sexually assaulting them I would never lie and say 'yes I did it'. Not for their sake and most certainly not for mine.

Ok so I've never been in that situation, so I can't know for sure how I would react. But I'd rather die than live admitting guilt just to please the fucking system. Life (to me) is nothing without principles.

I am with you there 100%. Bear in mind though that he was discharged without conviction. In essence this means regardless of his plea, he was not found guilty (different obviously to a jury finding him 'not guilty').

Would you reconsider your stance if it meant not dragging your daughter through months, if not years of a heart wrenching and potentially emotionally damaging trial? If it meant your daughter would not be scarred for life with that (again emotional) trauma?

My understanding after some research is that this was the decision he was forced to make, and although that may not be the course of action you or I would take, I can see how under the circumstances that is the course of action that was decided upon.

Would you sacrifice your daughters future mental wellbeing just so you could prove your point?

[onearmedbandit]

Would you sacrifice your daughters future mental wellbeing just so you could prove your point?

I considered this point strongly before making my earlier post, and while I can understand that point of view, I balanced it with the possibility of my daughter living with the thought that either I had done it (if say she had been effectively brainwashed into believing it - and then I admit guilt...) or that she was responsible for my wrongful 'conviction'. As I said I have two daughters, one just recently turned 5, and she could easily tell you whether I had or hadn't done anything of the sort. 4yr olds are not unaware of what goes on, and I believe would most definitely recall whether something like that happened.

Look as a father myself if he has been wrongly accused and has his daughter turned against him by outside influences, then I really feel for the guy. But myself, man I really don't know if I could admit guilt. I see it years down the path, when the daughter finally realises it never happened, I see it being a immense burden for her to carry then, that she was put in a position where her father was wrongly charged. And I think she'd wonder why he didn't protest his innocence more (not as an admission of guilt).

[Crasherfromwayback]

How exactly do you KNOW that?

Because he pleaded guilty. And before you start harping on about how/why he may've done so. I'll repeat myself. I'll get burnt in hell and made bankrupt before I'll ever plead guilty to such a charge. It's odd that the guy in question and the mother of the child were in a relationship before the 'incident'. How come we haven't been made privy to the fact that she's a nasty bitch that was simply trying to get back at him...even though we've heard all about his side of it? As in...he was pissed. He didn't know what he was doing?

When a woman makes a false accusation of rape against a man...her previous history of doing so would come to light.

I've had two partners in the past that had young kids. I learnt to love them like my own. When I split with the first (who had two youngins), they both gave me a big cuddle and told me how much they'd miss me. I cried. When the second and I split, She turned out to be evil personified and tried to insinuate I was some sort of threat to her 3 year old daughter.

That's the closest I've ever come to physically assulting a female.

I would sell my ute. My vintage bikes. My apartment, and every single thing I own to pay mylegal fees before pleading guilty to in any way behaving inappropriately towards a child.

Tell me this. Would you plead guilty to such a heinous crime?

[blackdog]

I considered this point strongly before making my earlier post, and while I can understand that point of view, I balanced it with the possibility of my daughter living with the thought that either I had done it (if say she had been effectively brainwashed into believing it - and then I admit guilt...) or that she was responsible for my wrongful 'conviction'. As I said I have two daughters, one just recently turned 5, and she could easily tell you whether I had or hadn't done anything of the sort. 4yr olds are not unaware of what goes on, and I believe would most definitely recall whether something like that happened.

Look as a father myself if he has been wrongly accused and has his daughter turned against him by outside influences, then I really feel for the guy. But myself, man I really don't know if I could admit guilt. I see it years down the path, when the daughter finally realises it never happened, I see it being a immense burden for her to carry then, that she was put in a position where her father was wrongly charged. And I think she'd wonder why he didn't protest his innocence more (not as an admission of guilt).

It's a tough one aye. As much as I would like kids I can't have them, but this thread has struck a chord for some reason. I have two nieces that are very dear to me (my little brothers girls), and I can almost imagine their mother being vindictive enough to do a similar thing just because she's a mental cunt.

He may or may not be a guilty man I don't care, but I won't nail him up without being satisfied that there is guilt.

Your girls are lucky they have a stand up Dad with solid morals. They will grow up and be upstanding too (if not a little bit of a handful) of that I am sure.

[blackdog]

Because he pleaded guilty. And before you start harping on about how/why he may've done so. I'll repeat myself. I'll get burnt in hell and made bankrupt before I'll ever plead guilty to such a charge. It's odd that the guy in question and the mother of the child were in a relationship before the 'incident'. How come we haven't been made privy to the fact that she's a nasty bitch that was simply trying to get back at him...even though we've heard all about his side of it? As in...he was pissed. He didn't know what he was doing?

When a woman makes a false accusation of rape against a man...her previous history of doing so would come to light.

I've had two partners in the past that had young kids. I learnt to love them like my own. When I split with the first (who had two youngins), they both gave me a big cuddle and told me how much they'd miss me. I cried. When the second and I split, She turned out to be evil personified and tried to insinuate I was some sort of threat to her 3 year old daughter.

That's the closest I've ever come to physically assulting a female.

I would sell my ute. My vintage bikes. My apartment, and every single thing I own to pay mylegal fees before pleading guilty to in any way behaving inappropriately towards a child.

Tell me this. Would you plead guilty to such a heinous crime?

refer to post #92

[blackdog]

or that she was responsible for my wrongful 'conviction'.

He was not convicted, nor found to be guilty of anything.

[onearmedbandit]

He was not convicted, nor found to be guilty of anything.

I realise that, hence the ' ' around the word conviction. In the eyes of many he is convicted, not by the courts but by the media and public perception.

[blackdog]

I realise that, hence the ' ' around the word conviction. In the eyes of many he is convicted, not by the courts but by the media and public perception.

In any case, the summation is it is a sorry state of affairs.

I fear we will never know the truth, and have to place our faith in the justice system hoping the right decision was made.

Was there any actual offence and will it be recidivist? If in the future I am proved wrong I will be first in line with a torch and crown of thorns, but I won't be jumping the gun on the say so of NZ media.

Let's give the poor girl a chance to get on with her life and hopefully have the love and respect that she deserves from everyone in her family.

[Winston001]

A snippet from the media report which gives us a picture of what the Judge had to consider:

Judge Cunningham said she had also viewed the police video interview with the four year-old.
"What struck me about it was the wish of this child to see and be with her father again.''
The man's partner, who also has permanent name suppression, wept as she told the court that she and her daughter had been having counselling.
"While we were together [the man] was a great Dad who was very supportive, loving and hands on. I always thought of him as a great guy.''

[SS90]

I considered this point strongly before making my earlier post, and while I can understand that point of view, I balanced it with the possibility of my daughter living with the thought that either I had done it (if say she had been effectively brainwashed into believing it - and then I admit guilt...) or that she was responsible for my wrongful 'conviction'. As I said I have two daughters, one just recently turned 5, and she could easily tell you whether I had or hadn't done anything of the sort. 4yr olds are not unaware of what goes on, and I believe would most definitely recall whether something like that happened.

Look as a father myself if he has been wrongly accused and has his daughter turned against him by outside influences, then I really feel for the guy. But myself, man I really don't know if I could admit guilt. I see it years down the path, when the daughter finally realises it never happened, I see it being a immense burden for her to carry then, that she was put in a position where her father was wrongly charged. And I think she'd wonder why he didn't protest his innocence more (not as an admission of guilt).

Reading the summation of the case (particularly the summation of the facts about the "removing of nappies" and so on....(that makes me very ill just now), I can't help but think that somehow, it does not add up.

I mean, lets think about this, a clearly pissed guy, gets the shoulder from the missus, zonks out, wakes up to his 4 year old daughter in the bed, (can't quite bring myself to write the rest)....... but how the hell would anyone expect to get away with it?.... I'm not excusing, or justifying it, just trying to put reason to the situation.

In the end, a Judge (Female one at that) gave a discharge.... clearly she took things into account that we know nothing about, possibly even a statement form the vitims Mother.

NO matter what, this guys life is Fu%$ed.
Forever.

A bigger injustice would have been done if he had only served a year or some silly thing.

In my opinion, the Judge has actually tailered the punishment to suit the guilty party.

[flyingcrocodile46]

why did he get away

Little c&nt. I have never liked him. Short people are sick in the head and inherently untrustworthy

[mashman]

Look, if he actually did what was accused then he should have been sentenced to a whole lot worse than imprisonment. I am risking harping on but, we just don't know!

If this was a complete fabrication by an angry and/or disturbed wife with an axe to grind, does he still then deserve to see the inside of a cell?

When you get on the wrong side of someone who is willing to tell stories about what you have supposedly done (fact or fiction) I will be there championing your cause until it is proved to me that you are guilty.

In the case we are discussing I have seen no such proof. What is reported in New Zealands papers I have long since learned to take with a pinch of salt. As has everyone else on this forum when it suits them.

Don't you Look me Mr Harperonna ... If she has been a bitch, then she has been a bitch... but as OAB mentioned earlier, you can bet yer arse I'd be kickin and screamin if I had been the victim of such viciousness... that doesn't exactly fill me full of confidence that the guy is innocent. Granted that shouldn't be enough to burn the guy, but we're talking about a kid here and hadn't he been "ordered" by the courts to stay away from children?

[Number One]

As someone who interviews these children, I can assure you THEY UNDERSTAND.

As someone whose child was recently interviewed about this very situation I'd like to say that your assurance that 'these people understand' is actually not at all convincing

A snippet from the media report which gives us a picture of what the Judge had to consider:

Judge Cunningham said she had also viewed the police video interview with the four year-old.
"What struck me about it was the wish of this child to see and be with her father again.''

THAT doesn't mean crap!

My boy still wants his poppa - thinks we are bad for putting him in jail...

Peados work within trusting relationships that's how come they can do what they do... The nasty violent ones are actually in the minority so abuse often happens under the guise of fun games etc. Victims will often collude with and desire contact with their abuser.

It's stomach churning and completely sick making - my boy still can't wait to see his poppa..not sure how I'm going to handle things if he still wants to see him when he gets out in the not to distant future.

BTW - his Poppa plead guilty, and went to counselling and told everyone (except us) how remorseful he was...means JACK SHIT. The second you use a kid for your own sexual gratification you may as well shoot yourself as far as I am concerned and being a bit too pissed to know what your doing is a pathetic and unconvincing 'excuse'.

[Crasherfromwayback]

As someone whose child was recently interviewed about this very situation I'd like to say that your assurance that 'these people understand' is actually not at all convincing

Think she meant the children understand no?