Who will win the 2011 election?

[mashman]

An award from the Queen?

praps he'll get a Nobel Prize like his buddy Obama... albeit it for economics

[shrub]

and this is the crux of the matter for those that are not John Keys Fanboys. What did he achieve before applying for the Job of Prime Minister in NZ (until that time I have never even heard of the man) and more importantly WHAT has he achieved since he got to be prime minister?

And I am not talking about working as a Currency Trader, but as a Politician in NZ. Here at home, what has he achieved?

And for the next for years, what is he going to achieve then?

He's promised a lot, from getting the bodies out of Pike River to promising the quake victim's families that "nobody will be left to walk this journey alone". He's also promised aspirational leadership, a plan for growth and to close the wages gap with Australia, and all the sheep believe him because he has one hell of a nice smile and much better teeth than Helen Clark.

[Banditbandit]

Sorry, I don't speak Maori but I'll give it a guess....

"Bwhahahaha .. it's funny ... 'cos it's true" ???

Close ... "I laughed .. you're a funny man"

[Oscar]

He's promised a lot, from getting the bodies out of Pike River to promising the quake victim's families that "nobody will be left to walk this journey alone". He's also promised aspirational leadership, a plan for growth and to close the wages gap with Australia, and all the sheep believe him because he has one hell of a nice smile and much better teeth than Helen Clark.

Your reference to "sheep" is not only quite childish and irritating, it spoils what are relatively balanced and thoughful posts. You're only impressing idiots like Mashman, you know.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

The aliems will win...

[oneofsix]

The aliems will win...

agreed but I thought the question was which group of aliems will win.

[Banditbandit]

agreed but I thought the question was which group of aliems will win.

OOOOoooooohhhh .. I hope it's the Aliems from Close Encounters .. not the very nasty ones from Aliens ..

[shrub]

Your reference to "sheep" is not only quite childish and irritating, it spoils what are relatively balanced and thoughful posts. You're only impressing idiots like Mashman, you know.

I'm sorry that my use of the term "sheep" annoyed you, but i couldn't think of a better way to describe the unquestioning way people accept whatever Key says as gospel because he comes across as a thoroughly decent guy with the common touch and a mastery of economics and commerce. I can't think of a better word to describe the kind of chatter from his supporters that so closely mirrors the language and ideology presented by the National party PR machine, and is often so much at such variance from what can be observed that I cannot seriously believe they have come to those opinions through a process of critical consideration.

Have you ever read Animal Farm? If you have, look at the way the sheep talk in that, and how they are manipulated to say what the pigs want them to say; often things that are diametricaly opposed to what they have said in the past. That's why I used the term sheep, not to impress anyone.

And if you don't like the term, can you find a better way of describing the behaviour concerned?

[oldrider]

I'm sorry that my use of the term "sheep" annoyed you, but i couldn't think of a better way to describe the unquestioning way people accept whatever Key says as gospel because he comes across as a thoroughly decent guy with the common touch and a mastery of economics and commerce. I can't think of a better word to describe the kind of chatter from his supporters that so closely mirrors the language and ideology presented by the National party PR machine, and is often so much at such variance from what can be observed that I cannot seriously believe they have come to those opinions through a process of critical consideration.

Have you ever read Animal Farm? If you have, look at the way the sheep talk in that, and how they are manipulated to say what the pigs want them to say; often things that are diametricaly opposed to what they have said in the past. That's why I used the term sheep, not to impress anyone.

And if you don't like the term, can you find a better way of describing the behaviour concerned?

Vivid description of the Labour party voters over 1984 - 1988 period!

They didn't know what they were voting for then and they still don't know "what" or "who" they are really voting for now!

Same applies to NZ electorate overall actually!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

agreed but I thought the question was which group of aliems will win.

ohhhh which group of aliems... thats easy..

the pigheaded ones... the ones that no listen, and no learn... you know the ones... the werid bunch... oh wait

[Oscar]

I'm sorry that my use of the term "sheep" annoyed you, but i couldn't think of a better way to describe the unquestioning way people accept whatever Key says as gospel because he comes across as a thoroughly decent guy with the common touch and a mastery of economics and commerce. I can't think of a better word to describe the kind of chatter from his supporters that so closely mirrors the language and ideology presented by the National party PR machine, and is often so much at such variance from what can be observed that I cannot seriously believe they have come to those opinions through a process of critical consideration.

Have you ever read Animal Farm? If you have, look at the way the sheep talk in that, and how they are manipulated to say what the pigs want them to say; often things that are diametricaly opposed to what they have said in the past. That's why I used the term sheep, not to impress anyone.

And if you don't like the term, can you find a better way of describing the behaviour concerned?

Human nature.‎

They see a man who appears decent, so they accept that appearance until something ‎comes along to contradict it. Perhaps the PR bods are cashing in on the trusting ‎nature of the electorate, but nothing I’ve seen from the National Party in my life leads ‎me to conclude that they are smart or devious enough to carry off the Orwellian plan ‎that you have outlined .‎

Notwithstanding that, the main thing the use of epithets like “sheep” does is to make the ‎user look elitist and condescending. At the moment, based on current polling, you’re ‎inferring that you know better than at least half of the electorate. And if you really ‎were that smart, you wouldn’t be using tired old clichés like Orwell’s sheep… ‎

[shrub]

Vivid description of the Labour party voters over 1984 - 1988 period!

They didn't know what they were voting for then and they still don't know "what" or "who" they are really voting for now!

Same applies to NZ electorate overall actually!

A pretty good point. I voted Labour in 84 and thought I was voting for a party that supported the working man (I was on the tools back then). The next few years, like a lot of people, I got swept up in 80s wank and traded my overalls for shiny suits, pink shirts and grey shoes and I thought Douglas et al were the messiah come again. Then I lost everything I owned and found myself driving a truck for minimum wage and I realised that the Labour party were neither the party of the working man nor the high flying suit. I think that's been Labour's problem ever since - they're not the party of the working man any more.

That's partly because the working man doesn't really exist any more the way he used to. The old school socialists used to be able to convince the working man that the bosses were his enemy and bleeding him dry by sitting on their arses profitting from his labour. The unions were his ally and the Labour party were his party, so when Wayne with the grouse Kingswood held forth at the pub with his jug in front of him, it was National, the bosses and the banks that were the enemy.

Over the last couple of decades it has all changed, especially since the property boom. Wayne found that his $120,000 house was worth $300,000 and he listened to the real estate agent and bought some investment properties and became a millionaire. He bought a better ute and became a businessman and now he has new enemies that suck his lifeblood presented to him by the National/Act spin doctors - lazy career beneficiaries earning $1000 a week and useless bureaucrats in Wellington making his life a misery, and both being paid by him from his taxes. Now he holds forth with his bottle of Stella in front of him and it's Labour, the unions, beneficiaries, bureaucrats and climate change he is against.

I wonder what next for our hero?

[Banditbandit]

At the moment, based on current polling, you’re ‎inferring that you know better than at least half of the electorate. ‎

Shit - anyone with political opinions thinks they know better than half the elctorate - if not all the electorate .

[Oscar]

Shit - anyone with political opinions thinks they know better than half the elctorate - if not all the electorate .

Yeah, but he thinks he knows better, when it's actually me that knows better...

[shrub]

Human nature.‎

They see a man who appears decent, so they accept that appearance until something ‎comes along to contradict it. Perhaps the PR bods are cashing in on the trusting ‎nature of the electorate, but nothing I’ve seen from the National Party in my life leads ‎me to conclude that they are smart or devious enough to carry off the Orwellian plan ‎that you have outlined.‎

Of course they are, one of the reasons Key got the job was because of how he came across, and I'm probably a little more cynical then you. National have some extremely clever people working for them in their PR - I know one of them quite well - and they are bloody good at manipulating public opinion. They're also bloody lucky to have Key because he is so popular he really cannot put a foot wrong right now. That will change in 2 - 3 years, but not before they pull the next election and probably the one after that.

Notwithstanding that, the main thing the use of epithets like “sheep” does is to make the ‎user look elitist and condescending. At the moment, based on current polling, you’re ‎inferring that you know better than at least half of the electorate. And if you really ‎were that smart, you wouldn’t be using tired old clichés like Orwell’s sheep… ‎

Actually I probably do know more than half the electorate - or at least I would hope I would given the huge amount of work I have put into gaining an education in political science, media and business. I know these days education is seen as being a bad thing, but I don't know a better way to gain specialist knowledge than through reading, researching, analysing and being taught by experts. There certainly isn't an easier way that actualy produces results or I would have used it.

And as I said before, can you think of a better way of describing the behaviour I'm talking about?