How to get junior road racers noticed for MotoGP?

[CHOPPA]

A CRT team using New Zealand's depth of knowledge of engineering, without the cost of prototype racing - that's a concept that says hello to me.

A well set up NZ team in OZZY would be a good start

[wayne]

maybe when red bull ask for riders both parents height, is means they after small riders,

[Shorty_925]

Instead we have the situation where Scott Moir/Jamie Rajek, a very promising team who could really go places, rock up to a club event with their new superbike and get half the track time of Joe Citizen going nowhere on his/her post-classic/BEAR's/600.
[/I]

Have you not seen the 2011/2012 BRM Summer Series entry forms? Let me redirect you Supplementary regs number 8 & 9: http://www.sportsground.co.nz/files/...44KCXFVIXM.pdf

[Shorty_925]

Correct me if im wrong but do we not have a IDSE team representing NZ

Last years ISDE team were a club team from NZ.

[slowpoke]

A well set up NZ team in OZZY would be a good start

That's what I'd be aiming for as a great development step to something bigger down the track, both for a team and riders. Much more attainable but still a great test with world class riders and tracks.

Have you not seen the 2011/2012 BRM Summer Series entry forms? Let me redirect you Supplementary regs number 8 & 9: http://www.sportsground.co.nz/files/...44KCXFVIXM.pdf

Yeah, I saw the entry form. Well done to the organisers for making some significant changes for this series. It's better, still a long way from encouraging our best young talent onto the right bikes, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Skunk]

More volunteers, more money, more time. Then we could do everything. Somethings gotta give somewhere.

At the moment each Club runs it's own scheme (and method) with it's own costs.

'My' idea is to find the 'young talent' in MX or Buckets and develop from there.
• They need a clear class progression. (Streetstock -> 450 -> 600 -> 1000?)
• Training. Clear, quality training.
• Nationwide support. (If they are the 'talent' at one club they are given the same treatment at ALL other clubs they compete at as far as entry fees etc.)
• One standard scheme for the 'talent' Nationwide.
• Limited numbers (two per club?)

Question is: who pays? Some clubs have enough in the bank to send a rider to EJC quite a few years running and some don't. The money won't last forever and either will the volunteers.

The scheme VMCC ran this year cost the Club directly around $3000. We have been fund raising to cover that. Volunteers run it and fund raise for it. Sooner or later the Committee will change and so will the scheme. This is something that needs control from MNZ. One scheme.

Questions are:
• How is the scheme managed? (MNZ dictated?)
• How are the riders judged?
• What do we do when it's time for them to go to Ox/Europe/US? How do we mange/fund it?

I would like to see some progress but frankly have enough trouble with what I do already.

[jellywrestler]

A well set up NZ team in OZZY would be a good start

How easy would that be given that despite the fact they've way more people in their country, and support of the general population ( how many world champions have aussie produced in the last twenty years) their superbike grids are less than ours.
Why is that then?

[gixerracer]

More volunteers, more money, more time. Then we could do everything. Somethings gotta give somewhere.

At the moment each Club runs it's own scheme (and method) with it's own costs.

'My' idea is to find the 'young talent' in MX or Buckets and develop from there.
• They need a clear class progression. (Streetstock -> 450 -> 600 -> 1000?)
• Training. Clear, quality training.
• Nationwide support. (If they are the 'talent' at one club they are given the same treatment at ALL other clubs they compete at as far as entry fees etc.)
• One standard scheme for the 'talent' Nationwide.
• Limited numbers (two per club?)

Question is: who pays? Some clubs have enough in the bank to send a rider to EJC quite a few years running and some don't. The money won't last forever and either will the volunteers.

The scheme VMCC ran this year cost the Club directly around $3000. We have been fund raising to cover that. Volunteers run it and fund raise for it. Sooner or later the Committee will change and so will the scheme. This is something that needs control from MNZ. One scheme.

Questions are:
• How is the scheme managed? (MNZ dictated?)
• How are the riders judged?
• What do we do when it's time for them to go to Ox/Europe/US? How do we mange/fund it?

I would like to see some progress but frankly have enough trouble with what I do already.

I agree with some of what you say.
I think as long as all clubs are doing something positive that is the main thing. It wouldnt matter to much I dont think if each club does it in a different way. Vic club has access to some high level riders as do most clubs and asking some of these guy's to perhaps do some coaching in the lunch breaks or something with the real young ones wouldnt be such a bad idea?
Start them young and keep them keen is the key and also the hard part

[gixerracer]

How easy would that be given that despite the fact they've way more people in their country, and support of the general population ( how many world champions have aussie produced in the last twenty years) their superbike grids are less than ours.
Why is that then?

The main reason aussie produce champions is A: they have a very high level of competition and B: There disributor backed team provide there riders direct access to overseas rides. Honda over the years have poored millions of dollars in to there riders going overseas and look at what suzuki have done for Josh waters recently, Bayliss got the 250gp ride with the help of Suzuki which is what got him started. TKA for Malidin Honda done a fair bit for Gobert the list goes on and on.

[jellywrestler]

The main reason aussie produce champions is A: they have a very high level of competition and B: There disributor backed team provide there riders direct access to overseas rides. Honda over the years have poored millions of dollars in to there riders going overseas and look at what suzuki have done for Josh waters recently, Bayliss got the 250gp ride with the help of Suzuki which is what got him started. TKA for Malidin Honda done a fair bit for Gobert the list goes on and on.

Good point Craig, my question was why are the grids at the aussie superbikes even smaller than ours?
P.S. Isn't it past your bedtime or have they got electricity in Feilding now and you've got electric lighting?

[Billy]

More volunteers, more money, more time. Then we could do everything. Somethings gotta give somewhere.

At the moment each Club runs it's own scheme (and method) with it's own costs.

'My' idea is to find the 'young talent' in MX or Buckets and develop from there.
• They need a clear class progression. (Streetstock -> 450 -> 600 -> 1000?)
• Training. Clear, quality training.
• Nationwide support. (If they are the 'talent' at one club they are given the same treatment at ALL other clubs they compete at as far as entry fees etc.)
• One standard scheme for the 'talent' Nationwide.
• Limited numbers (two per club?)

Question is: who pays? Some clubs have enough in the bank to send a rider to EJC quite a few years running and some don't. The money won't last forever and either will the volunteers.

The scheme VMCC ran this year cost the Club directly around $3000. We have been fund raising to cover that. Volunteers run it and fund raise for it. Sooner or later the Committee will change and so will the scheme. This is something that needs control from MNZ. One scheme.

Questions are:
• How is the scheme managed? (MNZ dictated?)
• How are the riders judged?
• What do we do when it's time for them to go to Ox/Europe/US? How do we mange/fund it?

I would like to see some progress but frankly have enough trouble with what I do already.

Too be honest,A lot of what you say here makes me all the more convinced that the correct path at this stage is to try and identify the talent as early as possible,As you say at buckets or Junior motorcross and introduce them to the folks down at Motorcycling Canterbury to try and get them into their coaching regime asap,It appears that in the North Island the clubs are struggling to keep up with the workloads and costs already and are unable to produce a scheme even remotely close to that in Christchurch.

A classic example of this would be Tyler Lincoln,I'll bet hes just about had more tracktime in the last 2 weeks,Than hes had all winter and the level of coaching down there is structured for the younger entrants,Its taken a lot of hard work and dedication to get that setup and I honestly dont see anybody in the North Island replicating it anytime soon.

I hope the guys in the North Island dont take this as a negative,But from what Ive seen they are under rescourced and under qualified in comparison,They are putting in a lot af hard work for very little results.

[wharfy]

Almost all NZ sports have a "high performance" squad/coach/school/whatever ACU/MNZ have in the past sent "teams" to various events but as far as I'm aware there is no "high performance" group (for road racing anyway)

Despite that, motorcycling is the most successful international sporting code for New Zealand with the most world titles (35) of any sport by a big margin !!!

It is a shame that there is no Olympic Games motor cycle class.

I don't have any figures to back this up but I suspect that rowing has fewer competitors than motorcycling in NZ and that a top of the line single scull costs as much as much as Stroudy's Superbike - It has probably been going in NZ as long as Motorcycling and produced, what a dozen world titles ? and a similar number of gold medals ?
I remember NZ rowing success at Munich and Mexico, then a big drought until about the 90's when things turned around for them, now NZ is a major force in international rowing.
Perhaps OUR people should talk to THEIR people (as we say in Wellywood )
Check out THEIR website http://www.rowingnz.com/
I have no idea where they get their money - or what sort of "bang for the buck" their sponsors get - can anyone name a rowing sponsor ?

[slowpoke]

More volunteers, more money, more time. Then we could do everything. Somethings gotta give somewhere.

At the moment each Club runs it's own scheme (and method) with it's own costs.

'My' idea is to find the 'young talent' in MX or Buckets and develop from there.
• They need a clear class progression. (Streetstock -> 450 -> 600 -> 1000?)
• Training. Clear, quality training.
• Nationwide support. (If they are the 'talent' at one club they are given the same treatment at ALL other clubs they compete at as far as entry fees etc.)
• One standard scheme for the 'talent' Nationwide.
• Limited numbers (two per club?)

Question is: who pays? Some clubs have enough in the bank to send a rider to EJC quite a few years running and some don't. The money won't last forever and either will the volunteers.

The scheme VMCC ran this year cost the Club directly around $3000. We have been fund raising to cover that. Volunteers run it and fund raise for it. Sooner or later the Committee will change and so will the scheme. This is something that needs control from MNZ. One scheme.

Questions are:
• How is the scheme managed? (MNZ dictated?)
• How are the riders judged?
• What do we do when it's time for them to go to Ox/Europe/US? How do we mange/fund it?

I would like to see some progress but frankly have enough trouble with what I do already.

Thanks Skunk, very informative post.

Yep, I can well understand the workload you're operating under. With that in mind I'm thinking something could be done to reduce the effort required by having systems/classes/events setup that do some of the work for you. By that I mean we shouldn't have to physically identify and foster talent, it should be a by product of the way we do our business, ie natural selection. We shouldn't have to physically direct/help good riders through the stepping stones classes you mentioned, they should want to naturally progress, and will do if the events are structured properly.

Forget cross entry's. There is what, 7 hours of track time at the average meeting? Even without changing the current classes that should be more than enough for the 6 race "groupings" as they stand for each to get close to an hour on track. Tack on "600 and over" and "up to 600" fastest riders races (top 15-20 riders in each?) at the end based on lap times as they do at Paeroa/Wanga's. Portion the race length right and people will naturally want to move through the classes. No work required other than drawing up the program.

It won't be popular with everyone but my feeling is that some hard decisions could relieve you of some hard work. The landscape won't change overnight but if things stay as they are they won't change at all.

Take some of the "junior development" money each club seems to spend and organise for club reps to get together and nut out something like the above (or completely different) that will have everyone on the same page and benefits everyone, especially juniors, long term. While you're there organise a once a year "inter-clubs championship" like the BEAR's do at Sound of Thunder and rotate it through the clubs on a yearly basis. Doesn't have to cost the clubs anything, but a one off event that is as social as it is competitive will encourage big participation, and give those who want/need it a higher level of competition. I'd be off like a bride's nightie if I could pool resources with a few others for travel, accommodation etc to race down South or up North and have a few bevvies/larf's afterwards.

How easy would that be given that despite the fact they've way more people in their country, and support of the general population ( how many world champions have aussie produced in the last twenty years) their superbike grids are less than ours.
Why is that then?

Because their best young riders continually transition to bigger and better things overseas. If you brought back all the riders racing internationally you'd have one farkin' awesome line up.

Numbers at Oz national level mightn't be great but the quality of field is amazing. For example Robbie Bugden 3 times NZSBK champion is currently 8th in the standings and every one of the guys in front of him either has won or is capable of winning the ASBK championship.

Something good must be happening at club/regional level to be feeding the ASBK.

With this sort of competition on our doorstep I struggle to see why you'd want to make it more difficult and more expensive by running a team further away. We struggle to beat guys like Robbie Bugden and Gareth Jones who aren't/weren't quite on the top step of podium in Oz yet we want to take on the World? Walk before you can run. Little steps: build up the local scene....produce riders who can be competitive in Oz....then target overseas.

[oyster]

The usual myths abound....
"Find young talent"
"No resources /money"
It's all BULLSHIT
I've been lucky to be at the front line of Junior development now for over 10 years and I can assure anyone that it takes very little effort, resources and money. The model in Canterbury is evidence of this and we've offered the knowledge of this program to MNZ and many clubs around the country countless times.
That these clubs and and our national leadership shun this advice and pursue other ideas which fail is nothing short of unbelievable.

[Billy]

The usual myths abound....
"Find young talent"
"No resources /money"
It's all BULLSHIT
I've been lucky to be at the front line of Junior development now for over 10 years and I can assure anyone that it takes very little effort, resources and money. The model in Canterbury is evidence of this and we've offered the knowledge of this program to MNZ and many clubs around the country countless times.
That these clubs and and our national leadership shun this advice and pursue other ideas which fail is nothing short of unbelievable.

No argument here