CRM80 build?

[RMS eng]

The round plug works fine for carbs with round inlet tracts but how many are like that? I know the XL100 carb has a shape that is closer to rectangular than round. If the plug was taken as a measure instead of area then there would be a pretty good case for all sorts of odd shapes to stay within the letter of the law. A tract that is 24mm high but well wide or 24 wide but much taller spring to mind immediately.

as i said or the same area as a 24mm round plug,if it is rectangular or a D bore carb just has to be the same area as a round 24mm carb,most carbs are round.carb rule seems easy to me.

[Henk]

Yep, carb rule should be easy, yet as a dog retuneth to its vomit, we keep ending up back here.
And from other posts and discussions it seems the carb rule is probably a little pointless anyway, it hasn't stood in the way of big HP so far, maybe we should just let it lie, it seems to be an issue with an almost religous fervour attached to it at times.

[speedpro]

as a note doe's any one know if V force reeds are legal

If they are for a non-competition engine as defined in bucket racing rules then perfectly OK. I have a set for a TZ(S)R250, which I'm not using, honestly. Nice bit of gear and supposedly worth hp

[husaberg]

Yep, carb rule should be easy, yet as a dog retuneth to its vomit, we keep ending up back here.
And from other posts and discussions it seems the carb rule is probably a little pointless anyway, it hasn't stood in the way of big HP so far, maybe we should just let it lie, it seems to be an issue with an almost religous fervour attached to it at times.

Instead of arguing amongst ourselves about carbs.
We should use our energy to get 4 strokes limited in Comp ratio say 10:1 only.
I am also not so happy about how some of them have more than 2 valves either.
4 valves per cylinder seems a little excessive.

[Bert]

......
as a note doe's any one know if V force reeds are legal

I was wandering the same thing; wouldn't it be an after market part rather than a performance part (competition); no one has really proven them to be a significant performance improvement?
I need to go and read the rules again; but i can't recall any mention of intake structure being classified in the list of engine parts that could not be of aftermarket origin (no mention of non-competition origin)...
Otherwise those using "mx" carbs or PWKs; or boyesen reeds etc would/may be in violation of the said rules..
Another Grey area...

[RMS eng]

I was wandering the same thing; wouldn't it be an after market part rather than a performance part (competition); no one has really proven them to be a significant performance improvement?
I need to go and read the rules again; but i can't recall any mention of intake structure being classified in the list of engine parts that could not be of aftermarket origin (no mention of non-competition origin)...
Otherwise those using "mx" carbs or PWKs; or boyesen reeds etc would/may be in violation of the said rules..
Another Grey area...

carbs are open like pipes and other parts in the rules so any thing goes.

[Buckets4Me]

would really love to do something with it rather than have it just sitting around, bucket sidecar would be my choice.

make a side car and stick it in
water cooled and all
then come race it BUGGER the rules (ITS A CHAIR NOT A BUCKET)

and if anyone complains they can build one themselfs
and when there is enought to run a real race change the engine to a legal one (thats if it isn't legal to begin with) it will need a rebuild by then anyway

JUST BLODY DO IT MATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we need more side cars

[gav]

carbs are open like pipes and other parts in the rules so any thing goes.

Unless its bolted to a 125cc two stroke

[gav]

And as far as rules go, the official word from the MNZ Road Race commissioner is it was the INTENT of the rules blah blah blah and they also suggested that the Bucket community needs to be self policing

Heres a copy of the reply from MNZ, some on here have already seen a copy of this.


Subject: Re: MNZ rule clarification or rule change required
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:09:19 +1300

Hi again Gavin

The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

If we take your suggestion to its full extent, you have a major can of worms - for instance, there are several KT100 parts in an AG100 engine. There is the odd early RM part in a TF125. and so on etc etc.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these .... and there was no such thing as RS125 framed MB100 cylindered MB50's either. But centre-hub steered G4TR's with watercooled RG cylinders grafted on were rightly applauded. Homemade alloy monocoques with VT250 headed CB125 engines were cool, and LEGAL

The Bucket community needs to be self-policing to an extent - if people are building bikes with illegal parts, suggest you do something about it by putting pressure on the guilty parties yourselves

Hope this helps ??????

Cheers
Peter R

This was my original email asking for clarification ...

2010_MoMS_Chapter_24_Road_Racing_Miniature.

24.2.4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted

Seeking clarification on this rule. The extra S added after Go Kart motor above has led a lot of confusion over the wording.
Some people read this rule to mean while its clear on competition transmission parts, its not clear on competition motor parts.
As its worded, some interpret that a complete motor is not allowed, but interpret by some logic that they are allowed to use competition motor PARTS.
No I would not agree putting in race parts is the same in effect as using the whole engine.
These would be excluded if it were to read Go Kart motor and transmission parts, but with the extra S added to motor, it seems some read this that its only a complete motor that is not permitted.
A point to be looked at, but I think (motor"s") was to cover off all motors of what ever brand and not as you have interpreted it.

Has this been raised in discussion in before? Not to my knowledge Was the extra S added as a typo? It seems to me that is a typo, as why would you ban transmission PARTS but not motor PARTS?
It has come to light that some people seem to think it is in the rules to use Go Kart parts in some engines in "Bucket racing".
A notice on the MNZ web site should clarify this for all competitors.

Can you confirm the intention of this rule? And is it possible to have the wording changed if it has been a typo all these years?

The items in red were a reply from Paul Stewart part of MNZ.
Shame he wasnt able to add in some comma's in his first line, as it is, Im not sure if he agrees or disagrees

So after all that, I think they missed the point of my original query ..... oh well .....
Can't be long before two stroke bucket bikes will be banned, due to their carbon footprint anyway is it?
Oh and sorry for the thread hijack, but welcome to the Bucket forum, you'll get use to it.

[Yow Ling]

And as far as rules go, the official word from the MNZ Road Race commissioner is it was the INTENT of the rules blah blah blah and they also suggested that the Bucket community needs to be self policing

Heres a copy of the reply from MNZ, some on here have already seen a copy of this.


Subject: Re: MNZ rule clarification or rule change required
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:09:19 +1300

Hi again Gavin

The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

If we take your suggestion to its full extent, you have a major can of worms - for instance, there are several KT100 parts in an AG100 engine. There is the odd early RM part in a TF125. and so on etc etc.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these .... and there was no such thing as RS125 framed MB100 cylindered MB50's either. But centre-hub steered G4TR's with watercooled RG cylinders grafted on were rightly applauded. Homemade alloy monocoques with VT250 headed CB125 engines were cool, and LEGAL

The Bucket community needs to be self-policing to an extent - if people are building bikes with illegal parts, suggest you do something about it by putting pressure on the guilty parties yourselves

Hope this helps ??????

Cheers
Peter R

This was my original email asking for clarification ...

2010_MoMS_Chapter_24_Road_Racing_Miniature.

24.2.4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted

Seeking clarification on this rule. The extra S added after Go Kart motor above has led a lot of confusion over the wording.
Some people read this rule to mean while its clear on competition transmission parts, its not clear on competition motor parts.
As its worded, some interpret that a complete motor is not allowed, but interpret by some logic that they are allowed to use competition motor PARTS.
No I would not agree putting in race parts is the same in effect as using the whole engine.
These would be excluded if it were to read Go Kart motor and transmission parts, but with the extra S added to motor, it seems some read this that its only a complete motor that is not permitted.
A point to be looked at, but I think (motor"s") was to cover off all motors of what ever brand and not as you have interpreted it.

Has this been raised in discussion in before? Not to my knowledge Was the extra S added as a typo? It seems to me that is a typo, as why would you ban transmission PARTS but not motor PARTS?
It has come to light that some people seem to think it is in the rules to use Go Kart parts in some engines in "Bucket racing".
A notice on the MNZ web site should clarify this for all competitors.

Can you confirm the intention of this rule? And is it possible to have the wording changed if it has been a typo all these years?

The items in red were a reply from Paul Stewart part of MNZ.
Shame he wasnt able to add in some comma's in his first line, as it is, Im not sure if he agrees or disagrees

So after all that, I think they missed the point of my original query ..... oh well .....
Can't be long before two stroke bucket bikes will be banned, due to their carbon footprint anyway is it?
Oh and sorry for the thread hijack, but welcome to the Bucket forum, you'll get use to it.

So what is he really saying? Dont bother MNZ with your silly little problems, or you guys should grow up and move on to serious racing.
In serious road racing there are rules that we will enforce, like no stubby clutch levers , but bucket peasants will need to sort out their minor problems like what engines etc are legal.. Dont forget to pay your license fees though because we want Motorcycling to be Safe, Fun and Fair

[husaberg]

So what is he really saying? Dont bother MNZ with your silly little problems, or you guys should grow up and move on to serious racing.
In serious road racing there are rules that we will enforce, like no stubby clutch levers , but bucket peasants will need to sort out their minor problems like what engines etc are legal.. Dont forget to pay your license fees though because we want Motorcycling to be Safe, Fun and Fair

I kind of didn't want this to go on KB but oh well.



The rules need sorting and so does the MNZ

Last time I looked Bucket racers pay the same level of fees both Entry and License as the rest of the classes and we would out number most other classes.
The rules need to be sorted. If the MNZ will not sort them.
Then block voting is my suggestion.
Whens the next election?

[Buckets4Me]

Last time I looked Bucket racers pay the same level of fees both Entry and License as the rest of the classes and we would out number most other classes.
The rules need to be sorted. If the MNZ will not sort them.
Then block voting is my suggestion.
Whens the next election?

we just had one of them and the guy standing for pressie was a bucket racer as well as other things and would have been good
BUT not enough votes so there you go

we may be bigger but we dont vote (who did you vote for)

who is at fault them or us ?

[husaberg]

we just had one of them and the guy standing for pressie was a bucket racer as well as other things and would have been good
BUT not enough votes so there you go

we may be bigger but we dont vote (who did you vote for)

who is at fault them or us ?

I do recall a Email.
Whoops Apathy?

That's why I am suggesting block voting by proxy if nes?

[Sketchy_Racer]

While you're all arguing over Choppa's CRM80 and shit, he's off riding his BMW Superbike at Taupo. Dropkicks...........

Nah his BMW superbike was broken again so he was on his BMW touring bike haha.

Hey chop I can show which corners are the best to crash at though and there's this one corner if you are real talented that you get your bike to hang in the tree....

[F5 Dave]

Sorry guys i haven't worked out how to post in the forums properly yet. The rotax engine i have is a 125 gearbox engine that was meant to have come out of a road bike and it came to New Zealand and was only used in a superkart. It has raised compression, ported cylinder and motoplat ignition, my contacts tell me it was an awsome engine but fairly temperamental. It runs a 5 speed gearbox which is similar to the rotax 256 superkart engine which was 250cc. It's around late eighties early nineties and is meant to be the same engine that was developed for long circuit 125cc karting in Europe at that time. I've had it for a little while now and earlier this year it was stolen but i managed to get it back, would really love to do something with it rather than have it just sitting around, bucket sidecar would be my choice.

mmm, sounds like it isn't legal. The 256 for example is a total GP engine. They used to be competition for the TZs of the time (1980 I think was first introduction) but later evolved cw PVs etc in the late 80s. Obviously far more common in karts.

Think some kart clubs do a historic class.