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I agree with this that there are diminishing returns on rear brake effectiveness as the load increases on the front wheel and that the risk of locking the rear increases along with this. I don't believe that this justifies the lack of use of the rear brake though.Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback
Fully qualified Sifter.
Yeah, at the end of the day, each to their own. You'll notice guys like Nicky Hayden have much larger rear discs than the Pedrosa's of the world, as being ex flat trackers vs 125/250 GP pilot, they use them far more. I use the rear fuck all in the dry, but quite a bit in the wet to help settle things down.
Ta
Who needs to justify it?
Some of us have raced and ridden for a long time, we've tried different stuff, and come up with how we like to do it.
By the way, on a bike without a slipper clutch, hooking back cogs too quick will spit the rear out sideways. Why would I add to the slowing of the rear wheel more than the bike can be slowed down?
Best Frenemy you could have!
It's true that modern sportsbikes are quite capable of lifting the rear under hard braking, just by using the front brake. Obviously with the arse in the air the back brake is useless, however, applying it first will make the bike squat, hugging the road, allowing more use of the rear, and therefore, a better overall braking performance.
That's not even mentioning the effect you're going to get by having the whole bike's weight pitch forward if you're only applying the rear, and hard, plus all the bad handling.
Ultimately, if you know how to brake, it's more effective using both than just one.
On the BMW, I have ABS, linked brakes and BMW's anti-dive technology in the Paralever/Telelever setup. For a big bike, it stops damn fast.
Fully qualified Sifter.
To a certain extent, you're correct. But once you're really hauling on the front, the rear will still leave the deck, or all but.
Hardcore Biker
It has it's uses, especially with a pillion on the back.
Best Frenemy you could have!
Stop humping the tank
You actually don't want the rear leaving the deck, as you have less control over the bike and only one piece of rubber slowing you down. Once the rear is in the air, sometimes you can only brake less, or risk endo'ing the bike.
Fully qualified Sifter.
Aye. But you try keeping the rear wheel of a Honda RS250 on the deck!!Stop humping the tank
You actually don't want the rear leaving the deck, as you have less control over the bike and only one piece of rubber slowing you down. Once the rear is in the air, sometimes you can only brake less, or risk endo'ing the bike.
Scumbag junkie-looking biker
Only use it when I have a pillion or I'm raping a little bike half to death.
Fair weather rider
If i think its dodgy to use the front brake I'll use the back.
If you want hard braking or emergency braking go for the front always.
If you think look at all that sand on the road or those big potholes coming up tooo quickly on my line. Ill trail the back brake. My first bike TZR250 never had a working back brake. But then I did crash that alot haha. When I started riding a real sportsbike on the road I learnt quickly you need all the help you can get trying to slow down just a fraction or on a greasy/icy switch back corner on the Stelvio pass
Like WT said do rear brake skids lots of them learn what it does how it works even, so you can relax and be comfortable with it jamming it on or feathering it
Rider in training
I think you'll get a bit of a mixed reaction. Might depend on where the person gets their experience from.
If your on the track, and are either braking or accelerating, and you approaching a tight corner from 300km/h, then the rear brake might not have that much impact. Or rather, the impact will be for a tiny amount of time.
Personally, for road use, I feel the rear brake does add something to the equation (it works for only a small amount of time, but larger than the track case above), so I do tend to use it as well as the front brake during hard breaking.
Also consider what happens when you come off the front brake. Without any rear brake the chain will tend to be loose (not under tension) and a sudden application of power can produce a snapping effect causing some instability in the bike. If you use the rear brake, even though the braking effect of the rear tyre is minimal, the chain will be kept under load, and the resulting delivery of power again to the read tyre smoother, resulting in greater bike stability.
Suffers from peterpan syndrome
I was taught at advanced road/race training to take full advantage of the rear brake, if used properly it can add more stopping power and more importantly improved corner stability!
How?...simple, when you use or "drag" the rear brake by itself it makes the bike "squat"...you can check this by simply pushing the rear end of your own bike down (same principle)....now get a mate to measure two things for you...the distance between the axels and the hight of the engine sump or belly pan.
These two factors are actually changing the cornering manners of your ride, the lower hight means a slightly lower center of gravity and the longer wheel base helps add slightly more stability to the bike.
So "in theory", if you drag the rear brake just before you hit the front brakes, the bike will squat, lenghten & pre-compress the rear shock, hence be more stable and less prone to lifting the rear end, the theoretical pay off is the bike tends to be more stable and goes through less of a "dramatic" physical change when hitting the corner (As the rear shock is pre-compressed etc), the end result is more traction and stability as you enter the corner.
But as Drew and others have stated, in the real world it comes down to the type of bike and the riders own style of cornering.
As an example, I had a 900 ninja that loved to have the rear brake dragged, it made a huge difference in cornering stability and stopping power...yet my VFR400 race bike hated it! (just made it twitchy and step out), so I just used engine braking and clutch control on the 400, my current bike the Guzzi is fat bitch and needs as much help stopping as possible lol so I currently use the rear brake alot.
End of the day, it comes down to your own preference and what works for and your own bikes set up...but the physic's are there to be tested, and the results may pay off.
When Life thows me a curve
...I lean into it!
Tight buns
Good stuff...just to add...once you finish braking then rolling on the throttle causes the back wheel to push down (due to angle between chain and swingarm pivot), shorten the wheelbase, and raise the ride height allowing you to turn more quickly without dragging things .I was taught at advanced road/race training to take full advantage of the rear brake, if used properly it can add more stopping power and more importantly improved corner stability!
How?...simple, when you use or "drag" the rear brake by itself it makes the bike "squat"...you can check this by simply pushing the rear end of your own bike down (same principle)....now get a mate to measure two things for you...the distance between the axels and the hight of the engine sump or belly pan.
These two factors are actually changing the cornering manners of your ride, the lower hight means a slightly lower center of gravity and the longer wheel base helps add slightly more stability to the bike.
So "in theory", if you drag the rear brake just before you hit the front brakes, the bike will squat, lenghten & pre-compress the rear shock, hence be more stable and less prone to lifting the rear end, the theoretical pay off is the bike tends to be more stable and goes through less of a "dramatic" physical change when hitting the corner (As the rear shock is pre-compressed etc), the end result is more traction and stability as you enter the corner.
But as Drew and others have stated, in the real world it comes down to the type of bike and the riders own style of cornering.
As an example, I had a 900 ninja that loved to have the rear brake dragged, it made a huge difference in cornering stability and stopping power...yet my VFR400 race bike hated it! (just made it twitchy and step out), so I just used engine braking and clutch control on the 400, my current bike the Guzzi is fat bitch and needs as much help stopping as possible lol so I currently use the rear brake alot.
End of the day, it comes down to your own preference and what works for and your own bikes set up
Legalise anarchy
Fully qualified Sifter.
When the forks are compressed you'll shorten the wheelbase. As the swingarm comes up through parallel, is also when the wheelbase is at it's longest. Hence why you adjust the chain when the s/a is in that position.
Embracing mediocrity
I've always used both brakes, mainly because I started out riding on old shitters with crap brakes and needed everything I had.
On my bike front brakes are great, and the back brake is near to useless for actually stopping, but I still trail it through corners so my foot is already there if I need to give things a tweak when cornering.
Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987
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