Is John Key the man to lead NZ?

[Robert Taylor]

This reminds me of a radio interview with John Banks. Outlining his history he stated that he used to box as a young man.
A listener rang after Mr. Banks got off.
He asked "Did I hear John Banks say he used to box when he was younger"?
When answered in the affirmative he replied" Well that explains it then".

Your history clearly explains your outlook on life and society.
We don't need Crypto-fascist brain-washing in our society.
Your adulation of war criminals like Margaret Thatcher and Jenny Shipley are illustrative of that brain-washing.

F16's FFS.
It may be noted that they were F16's bought and paid for by the Pakistan govt. but not delivered...and then they tried to sell them to us. Shysters. And you condemn the Govt for having principles and rejecting the offer. It was akin to buying stolen gear at the pub.

Maggie a war criminal? Get off the grass. She was protecting the soverignty of largely British citizens on the Falklands and in doing so writing a very proud moment in British history. Lesser men than her would have acceded and humiliated Britain even further after having been sold out by the Yanks in 56. The ultimate form of diplomacy is war and the only thing that Galtieri understood. It was great the Argies were sent packing.

[Robert Taylor]

This reminds me of a radio interview with John Banks. Outlining his history he stated that he used to box as a young man.
A listener rang after Mr. Banks got off.
He asked "Did I hear John Banks say he used to box when he was younger"?
When answered in the affirmative he replied" Well that explains it then".

Your history clearly explains your outlook on life and society.
We don't need Crypto-fascist brain-washing in our society.
Your adulation of war criminals like Margaret Thatcher and Jenny Shipley are illustrative of that brain-washing.

F16's FFS.
It may be noted that they were F16's bought and paid for by the Pakistan govt. but not delivered...and then they tried to sell them to us. Shysters. And you condemn the Govt for having principles and rejecting the offer. It was akin to buying stolen gear at the pub.

The F16s were cancelled AND the air combat wing callously disbanded because of that butch lesbo pacifist bitch that became priminister. I sincerely hope she( it ) rots in hell.

[Hinny]

It was great the Argies were sent packing.

Tui moment.

It was good, I suppose, that they found out how useless their ships were and how fantastic Exocet missiles were.

Thatcher was a war criminal for authorising the attack on the General Balgrano - in International waters with the loss of 323 lives.
The sinking occurred 14 hours after President of Peru proposed a comprehensive peace plan and called for regional unity.
Who was her rellie who had a farm on the Malvinas?

Shipley is a War criminal for sending troops into a covert illegal war in Iraq.

[Hinny]

The F16s were cancelled AND the air combat wing callously disbanded because of that butch lesbo pacifist bitch that became priminister. I sincerely hope she( it ) rots in hell.

Perhaps you should take a pill and calm down,

The air combat wing was disbanded on the advice of a former Nat, cabinet minister.
A Nat. cabinet minister who was right for a change.

[superman]

OK, so you think CMT is a good idea - are you in the services, or have you been in the services? if so, why did you 717? If not, I assume you are planning to join, which service? Will you do a trade or go in as a grunt?

Neither.

I'd do it happily if it were compulsory, but out of sheer choice... I think I'm good thanks. Especially given the NZ defences current funding or lack thereof.

[MisterD]

Thatcher was a war criminal for authorising the attack on the General Balgrano - in International waters

Whoop! Whoop! Red herring alert!

Under international law, the type of exclusion zone declared by the UK only applies to non-belligerent vessels. The warship of a belligerent vessel gets no protection under international law.

[Hinny]

Whoop! Whoop! Red herring alert!

Under international law, the type of exclusion zone declared by the UK only applies to non-belligerent vessels. The warship of a belligerent vessel gets no protection under international law.

So any US vessel, being representatives of the biggest terrorist organisation in the world, could be considered fair targets?

[MisterD]

So any US vessel, being representatives of the biggest terrorist organisation in the world, could be considered fair targets?

Now you're just being silly.

[shrub]

Neither.

I'd do it happily if it were compulsory, but out of sheer choice... I think I'm good thanks.

yeah, from personal experience basic is bloody tough, so I don't blame you for not wanting to do it, but it would do you the world of good and you might find hidden depths - I did. My son joined the army a couple of years ago as a vehicle mechanic and he went away a boy and came back a man. He has also developed a mental toughness that is rare - I rang him last weekend and when asked how he was "a little sore, we were pulled out of class and made to do a half marathon yesterday. Did it just over 2 hours though". How many 21 year old apprentices do you know that could physically do a half marathon without warning? And how many would have the mental strength? Having run long distance, most of being able to do it is mental toughness. Everything hurts, you feel like you have no energy left and there are still lots of ks in front of you, but you keep on running one step after another after another.

Especially given the NZ defences current funding or lack thereof.

You might be surprised - my son is getting the absolute best training there is with good instructors and a really well set up training environment, his toolkit is all top quality and he is earning significantly more money than any of his civvy mates. The vehicles are excellent (despite the limitations of the LAVs) and all late model, their weapons, clothing, accommodation, food, dental, medical etc are all as good as there is, and best of all, the piss is cheap.

If you think it's a good idea for other people, you should do it yourself.

[avgas]

yeah, from personal experience basic is bloody tough, so I don't blame you for not wanting to do it, but it would do you the world of good and you might find hidden depths - I did. My son joined the army a couple of years ago as a vehicle mechanic and he went away a boy and came back a man. He has also developed a mental toughness that is rare - I rang him last weekend and when asked how he was "a little sore, we were pulled out of class and made to do a half marathon yesterday. Did it just over 2 hours though". How many 21 year old apprentices do you know that could physically do a half marathon without warning? And how many would have the mental strength? Having run long distance, most of being able to do it is mental toughness. Everything hurts, you feel like you have no energy left and there are still lots of ks in front of you, but you keep on running one step after another after another.



You might be surprised - my son is getting the absolute best training there is with good instructors and a really well set up training environment, his toolkit is all top quality and he is earning significantly more money than any of his civvy mates. The vehicles are excellent (despite the limitations of the LAVs) and all late model, their weapons, clothing, accommodation, food, dental, medical etc are all as good as there is, and best of all, the piss is cheap.

If you think it's a good idea for other people, you should do it yourself.

What he said.
It has improved a lot in the last 10 years. I even hear they have at least 1 gun per soldier now
Which is why I think we need to use it more, and put more money effort into forces. To many bludgers could be learning real skills and growing up.

[oneofsix]

What he said.
It has improved a lot in the last 10 years. I even hear they have at least 1 gun per soldier now
Which is why I think we need to use it more, and put more money effort into forces. To many bludgers could be learning real skills and growing up.

Heard a rumour they had even improved the guns.

[imdying]

Well I am ex military and proud of it. I am all for compulsory military training for all school leavers.

I have better things to do with my time than bumble around in NZs version of Dads Army.

/edit: Or, more importantly, I'd rather see defence money spent on useful things. Like UAVs with FLIR, high res/speed video cameras, and homing torpedos, used to supplement/replace our Orion fleet. Sure there are certain aspects that are probably beyond us, but I would like to believe that we could design/build/maintain these here off our own back. We have a lot of ocean to look after.

Sure they'll take the best part of 10-20 years to develop, but our Orions will chug on a little longer, and at least we'll be in more control of our own military destiny for a change. It's a developing tech, we can then sell it on to terrorist nations like the yanks do, more export $$$$ FTW.

The NZ defence force want to pay $250 million to put a satellite into space I think I read last week, which is cool, but lets sort out some telementary for some UAVs before we do.

[shrub]

Heard a rumour they had even improved the guns.

Guns are for fun, we had rifles, real rifles not the plastic small calibre crap they use these days. The SLR was accurate, reliable, as tough as nails and delivered a 7.62mm message. Bloody heavy, and running 10ks in full kit carrying one of those puppies raised a sweat on anyone, to say nothing of holding on in present arms until the GSI decided we'd had enough.

[shrub]

I have better things to do with my time than bumble around in NZs version of Dads Army.

/edit: Or, more importantly, I'd rather see defence money spent on useful things. Like UAVs with FLIR, high res/speed video cameras, and homing torpedos, used to supplement/replace our Orion fleet. Sure there are certain aspects that are probably beyond us, but I would like to believe that we could design/build/maintain these here off our own back. We have a lot of ocean to look after.

Sure they'll take the best part of 10-20 years to develop, but our Orions will chug on a little longer, and at least we'll be in more control of our own military destiny for a change. It's a developing tech, we can then sell it on to terrorist nations like the yanks do, more export $$$$ FTW.

The NZ defence force want to pay $250 million to put a satellite into space I think I read last week, which is cool, but lets sort out some telementary for some UAVs before we do.

The Orion airframe is still plenty good enough for what we need it to do and will be fine for a long time yet. What people forget is that the Orions are simply a mechanism to carry the avionics around, so as long as we keep that up to date they're fine. Modern satellite surveillance means it's pretty well impossible for any surface vessel to sneak up on us, and our isolation means an airborne invasion would be damn near impossible to achieve without attracting a lot of attention before and after.

By far the greatest risk to our sovereignty is through our economy. Our level of indebtedness combined with our enthusiasm to sell our businesses including our power companies mean any nation who wants to take NZ over simply has to pull out the chequebook. It will cost less than a military takeover, won't result in UN sanctions etc, won't destroy infrastructure and most importantly the NZ population will be happy and compliant as long as they keep getting cheap TVs which means they will happily serve their new masters.

[imdying]

The Orion airframe is still plenty good enough for what we need it to do and will be fine for a long time yet. What people forget is that the Orions are simply a mechanism to carry the avionics around, so as long as we keep that up to date they're fine. Modern satellite surveillance means it's pretty well impossible for any surface vessel to sneak up on us, and our isolation means an airborne invasion would be damn near impossible to achieve without attracting a lot of attention before and after.

Indeed, but a little hard to deliver munitions (if it ever came to that) with a satellite though (as much as I love the concept of nuke from orbit...). You can also get much better evidence (i.e. better quality video) from something that doesn't have to look through the entire atmosphere. Satellites have their uses for sure.

By far the greatest risk to our sovereignty is through our economy.

I agree; I don't see our fishing grounds decreasing in value any time soon, so lets keep a close eye on those who use them. Selling some weapons along the way isn't going to do us much harm either.