Congratulations 48%

[Big Dave]

But John Key is so nice, how could he mine the south island!!??!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BmtEI9NWuz0#t=365s

[avgas]

Was that an election issue?? If not, why wasn't someone making it an election issue. Seems the biggest issue this time around was a cup of tea.

You appear to be supporting the idea that doing nothing does something. Yeah/nah??

Wasn't an election issue. But Democracy is more than voting for gubbermint every 4 years. Unfortunately many don't know this.
I didn't really understand it either until I went to communist china. Now I do.......I see massive issues with the way we implement democracy in NZ.

As for the nothing doing something. Nah not that stupid, I know nothing does nothing. But I now ask you to question if voting actually does anything?
Or is it SSDD?

Industry in NZ is light years ahead of the poor ol' government.
People in NZ are light years ahead of the poor ol' government.

So what should we do to change this? Bit of paper doesn't seem to do it, people have been doing it here for a while.
As stated earlier, I would rather things were fixed smartly now - rather than violently later. Because people won't be "non-voters" or "lazy vote whatever voters" forever.
Eventually the penny with drop. And people will be fed up.

[BoristheBiter]

Wasn't an election issue. But Democracy is more than voting for gubbermint every 4 years. Unfortunately many don't know this.
I didn't really understand it either until I went to communist china. Now I do.......I see massive issues with the way we implement democracy in NZ.

As for the nothing doing something. Nah not that stupid, I know nothing does nothing. But I now ask you to question if voting actually does anything?
Or is it SSDD?

Industry in NZ is light years ahead of the poor ol' government.
People in NZ are light years ahead of the poor ol' government.

So what should we do to change this? Bit of paper doesn't seem to do it, people have been doing it here for a while.
As stated earlier, I would rather things were fixed smartly now - rather than violently later. Because people won't be "non-voters" or "lazy vote whatever voters" forever.
Eventually the penny with drop. And people will be fed up.

The difference between a company and a country is, if you have dead wood in a company you let them go, none profit areas get cut back or out sourced try doing that with a country.

[mashman]

The difference between a company and a country is, if you have dead wood in a company you let them go, none profit areas get cut back or out sourced try doing that with a country.

they are (trying)

[BoristheBiter]

they are (trying)

yes, but people won't let them cut off the dead wood.

[mashman]

yes, but people won't let them cut off the dead wood.

yet that's what they've been doing the past few years, cutting services, merging departments, becoming "more efficient" etc... it certainly hasn't stopped them trying... tis a shame that under those circumstances, tis the non dead wood that bails. Granted that's a generalisation, but no-one likes working under the threat of losing their job and if they're any way competent, they'll bail... meanwhile to dole Q rises, people lose their livelihoods, houses, undergo family stresses etc... fuck I hate the byproduct of cutting the "dead wood".

[Pussy]

... fuck I hate the byproduct of cutting the "dead wood".

I hate paying for the dead wood.

[mashman]

I hate paying for the dead wood.

next time, make sure he pops a pill before hand

[FJRider]

Wasn't an election issue. But Democracy is more than voting for gubbermint every 4 years. Unfortunately many don't know this.
I didn't really understand it either until I went to communist china. Now I do.......I see massive issues with the way we implement democracy in NZ.

Ummm ... it's every three years actually ... (here in NZ anyway ... did you not know that ???)

As for the nothing doing something. Nah not that stupid, I know nothing does nothing. But I now ask you to question if voting actually does anything?
Or is it SSDD?

Doing nothing means somebody else does it for you. NOT necessarily the way YOU want it done.
Not only did registered voters NOT vote in their thousands ... eligible voters did not register in the thousands as well ...
And if you think ALL those people NOT voting ... does NOTHING ... will make NO CHANGE to the political system of OUR goverment ... perhaps you are that stupid.

Blank ballot papers and incorrectly filled ones are recorded only as INVALID votes and are not/do not ... count towards the final outcome.

Industry in NZ is light years ahead of the poor ol' government.
People in NZ are light years ahead of the poor ol' government.

I beg to differ ... Industry is reliant on goverment policy for survival and are usually only interested in making a profit. With only the interests of their own company on their mind.

Considering the result ... and the number of those that didn't register to vote, and those that did ... but didn't vote ... There are a LOT of people in NZ (far to many) that have no bloody idea ...

So what should we do to change this? Bit of paper doesn't seem to do it, people have been doing it here for a while.

If everybody that could ... and should vote ... the change might be quite radical ...

A goverment the way the MAJORITY want ...

[DrunkenMistake]

But John Key is so nice, how could he mine the south island!!??!!

Well...

[avgas]

Doing nothing means somebody else does it for you. NOT necessarily the way YOU want it done.

Only if you work on the principal things get done. I have experienced the opposite. If you don't do it. Doesn't get done. If the government doesn't have 100% of the peoples support.....why do we fill the house?
If I don't have 100% of the resources behind me.......I usually am not allowed to do things.

Not only did registered voters NOT vote in their thousands ... eligible voters did not register in the thousands as well ...
And if you think ALL those people NOT voting ... does NOTHING ... will make NO CHANGE to the political system of OUR goverment ... perhaps you are that stupid.

Blank ballot papers and incorrectly filled ones are recorded only as INVALID votes and are not/do not ... count towards the final outcome.

Sad to hear about people not enrolling. But I guess people live busy lives so I can see where that is coming from.
Your 100% correct about non-votes not counting in the current system. As mentioned earlier - I have always stated that I know they are wasted. But my concern is that what if this ignored data is actually hiding a bigger problem in NZ.
I would like to live in a New Zealand that addressed problems. My ancestors had that. They got stuff like voting for women etc.
Are you saying that 1/4 of NZ not voting is not a problem?

I beg to differ ... Industry is reliant on goverment policy for survival and are usually only interested in making a profit. With only the interests of their own company on their mind.

I really suggest you investigate this further. What you have described is actually the NZ government. NZ industry has an element of this - but contrary to popular belief.......they are actually make moves well before the NZ Govt discusses them.
Not saying they are angels. But just saying - NZ govt isn't exactly doing us many favours lately.

Considering the result ... and the number of those that didn't register to vote, and those that did ... but didn't vote ... There are a LOT of people in NZ (far to many) that have no bloody idea ...
If everybody that could ... and should vote ... the change might be quite radical ...
A goverment the way the MAJORITY want ...

Yeah that will fix it.
VOTE DAMN YOU! THEN WE ALL GET THE GOVT WE WANT! MAJORITY WINS!
Because democracy is all about compulsory voting, forcing govt rule upon us.

As mentioned earlier. I see a problem. I don't see compulsory voting being the silver bullet. There are reasons why people don't vote - until we address the problems you can scream red and blue until the cows come home.
What next put a gun to peoples head until they vote? How democratic.
What if they had the option to vote for no government? Would you accept that % as legitimate.

There is a problem. It needs to be addressed. If it doesn't my son's generation could end up hiding in their homes as people 'vote' in the street.

[rainman]

Why does it have to be one or t'other? Why can't we lead the world in clean green mining and sell the tech overseas?

'Cos we're not smart enough.

I believe over the next few months John and Bill will stand before us with serious expressions

TINA mark 2, absolutely, it is on the way.

Official government debt June 2008: $17.85 bn or 9.7% of GDP
Official government debt June 2011: $40.80 bn or 20.4% of GDP

That is the single biggest failing of the National government of the past few years, and not only will no-one hold them to account for it, they are still widely regarded as the best economic managers, and Labour regarded as the big borrowing party...

The last 3 years we have been in a recession and had to borrow to get ourselves out of it

So, they're Keynesians? Weird, but OK let's go with that. What did they spend the extra borrowing on, and how well did it stimulate the economy? Are we back to solid growth yet?

Democracy doesn't work. Just like over populating the planet. I expect the masses will catch up with reality some time. I'm interested to see what usurps it.

I'm not, I suspect it will look a lot like fascism.

Lots of people putting in empty ballot papers has influence. It shows the Politicians and Parties that there's a significant number of people who aren't catered for, so then they have to find out why.

Why? They have been elected (or not, as the case may be), job done. I note Te Greens are the main people calling for an inquiry into the low turnout.

Oh come off it, RNZ make the BBC look centrist at times.

I think you malign them needlessly - they are actually pretty balanced. Just look left by comparison to the other partisan hacks.

most journalists are left wing themselves
...

Why do NZ "journalists" :

Never bother to fact-check union or Labour party press releases?
Give the Green Party a complete free pass on everything?
Label anything to do with ACT "extreme" or "far-right"?

Come off it, they were all over Labour for their costings (rightly) but little challenge for the Nats' numbers. I suspect they don't harass the Greens much because everyone else does it for them. And ACT is extreme.

The difference between a company and a country is, if you have dead wood in a company you let them go, none profit areas get cut back or out sourced try doing that with a country.

Good observation. So, perhaps running a country like a company is a dumb idea? Perhaps someone should tell the Nats and their voters.

I really suggest you investigate this further.

No, I think he has it right. Most successful NZ businesses have heavy state involvement in their early history, and there is no better way to build an industry sector than to prop it up with government support. There is little incentive for the business sector to build risky enterprises all on their own when governments are around to help them get started (and flog them the working project at the end - assuming it's a winner). The ethics of this are parlous of course, but it's commonplace.

[Mental Trousers]

Why? They have been elected (or not, as the case may be), job done. I note Te Greens are the main people calling for an inquiry into the low turnout.

So those who win or do group hugs are the only ones that go looking for uncommitted votes?? Probably lucky you're not a Politician I guess.

[FJRider]

[QUOTE=avgas;1130207644] ... If the government doesn't have 100% of the peoples support.....why do we fill the house?
If I don't have 100% of the resources behind me.......I usually am not allowed to do things. [QUOTE]

Because it's a MAJORITY rules system.

By 100% of resources ... do you mean finances ... ???

Sad to hear about people not enrolling. But I guess people live busy lives so I can see where that is coming from.
Your 100% correct about non-votes not counting in the current system. As mentioned earlier - I have always stated that I know they are wasted. But my concern is that what if this ignored data is actually hiding a bigger problem in NZ.
I would like to live in a New Zealand that addressed problems. My ancestors had that. They got stuff like voting for women etc.
Are you saying that 1/4 of NZ not voting is not a problem?

Not to busy to moan if things dont turn out the way they want though ...

Perhaps if enough people spoke to their elected MP (regardless if it was the one they voted for) and rasised the issues with him/her ... problems may be addressed ... easier just to moan LOUDLY ...

I really suggest you investigate this further. What you have described is actually the NZ government. NZ industry has an element of this - but contrary to popular belief.......they are actually make moves well before the NZ Govt discusses them.
Not saying they are angels. But just saying - NZ govt isn't exactly doing us many favours lately.

If NZ industry make moves that are contradiction to goverment policy/principals/intentions ... goverment changes the rules ... but light years ahead ... I wouldn't say that at all.
NZ industry is always looking for the lawful loophole that can give them the edge, over the rest in their line of business ... (ie: The competition)

Yeah that will fix it.
VOTE DAMN YOU! THEN WE ALL GET THE GOVT WE WANT! MAJORITY WINS!
Because democracy is all about compulsory voting, forcing govt rule upon us.

Apart from the fact voting is NOT comulsory ... (but it IS compulsory to be registered to vote ... by law) .... Democracy IS about the MAJORITY. Majority gives mandate ... (apparently )

Just that the single minded, self-centered, ass-holes (MOST of whom didn't vote) want the goverment (or MP) to do more for them... or want the rules changed (to suit THEM more)

As mentioned earlier. I see a problem. I don't see compulsory voting being the silver bullet. There are reasons why people don't vote - until we address the problems you can scream red and blue until the cows come home.
What next put a gun to peoples head until they vote? How democratic.

Incentive to vote ... (1000 fly-buy points awarded to EACH registered voter ... 10,000 to EACH that ACTUALLY voted ... then watch the fun come election day ...

RECORD 100% voter turnout (ok .... 98.9 %) I bet ...

What if they had the option to vote for no government? Would you accept that % as legitimate.

There is a problem. It needs to be addressed. If it doesn't my son's generation could end up hiding in their homes as people 'vote' in the street.

The simple fact is the GOVERMENT is just as much a BUSINESS ... as ANY in the private sector ... it stands to reason ... SOMEBODY must be in charge. MP's are heads of department .. or at least "office managers" and as such ... responsible to the CEO (Prime Minister)

Those that believe that it "wont matter" if they dont vote ... think of the 25% that didn't vote (give or take a few %) with votes of 5 % required to get a PARTY seat into Goverment ... FIVE PARTY seats were WASTED ... (to use a popular term.)

[rainman]

So those who win or do group hugs are the only ones that go looking for uncommitted votes??

Doubtless of some interest but that's what internal polling close to the next election is for, A lot can change in 3 years.

The simple fact is the GOVERMENT is just as much a BUSINESS ... as ANY in the private sector ... it stands to reason ... SOMEBODY must be in charge. MP's are heads of department .. or at least "office managers" and as such ... responsible to the CEO (Prime Minister)

Save me from the empty managerialism... That there are parallels between business and government does not mean they are identical.