Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[Brian407]

Brian you have been here 5 minutes, and managed to slag off some of the most effective people that NZ motorcycling has fighting for it.

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-Herbert Spencer

You gotta be shitting me... If thats the best you've got then we really are fucked.

[Brian407]

Out of interest......have you paid for the rego on your bikes?

Yes. Have you?

[Flip]

Caseye and Katman... i'm with you.

Good on you.

[Brian407]

So now I'll ask you to present a cognitive plan that will get us in front of the people who matter and I promise you that these very people of who you have shown such great disdain will in fact follow you! to hell and back without doing as so many here do do, that is to say start bitching and moaning about not being able to come cause of work or this or that they'd give the time as they have always done and they'd die if it meant other motorcyclists got a fair go.

Pehaps the first move would be to get a cognitive idea of what real issues you actually want to confront. After following the Safer Journeys plan since inception I dont actually see it as too much of a threat, except to those that want to ride like idiots, and for that sector the only thing that will work is tougher enforcement, which is being introduced in June of this year. If there's actually a problem to be addressed here, its the Motorcycle Safety Council who are supposed to be advocating on our behalf. The only thing i've seen from them at this point is copius amounts of spewed diatribe in a feeble attempt to justify the 30 bucks we all have now to pay to keep their coffee pot full.

So far, the only thing I see in unity is complaints about the ACC levies in our rego, but there is clearly no unified approach amongst motorcyclists about how to deal with that. Bottom line is until you can gain unity and stop the in-fighting you're never going to get anywhere.

I have no doubt that the people, and I have read thier resumes, have put in a massive effort, but when I suggested that providing submissions to the current draft on the table would be a good idea these very people chimed in stating it was a waste of time. If they wanted to get my hackles up, then they couldnt have found a better way. I dont care what the odds are, I dont subscribe to defeatism, and I also dont care about whose toes i stand on if it gets people talking and the issues to the forefront. You know... the thorn in the side, the squeeky wheel, etc. Simply giving up is not an option in my book and thats what I appear to be hearing on masse here.

[caseye]

407, I'm truely interested in seeing your reply to my post. I rarely burn bridges and I often find common ground where others see nothing but quicksand. YT and MSTRS don't always see eye to eye with Katman, nor do I but we all know each others motives are true and would back one another without question on issues that we believe in.Oh and don't be fooled by the often heated debates that we do from time to time have here in KB land,we do know that the others are for real and have sacrificed plenty to help our fellow motorcyclists so there is a base level of respect and dare I say it admiration for one anothers achievements over the past few years.

[Brian407]

see above. you posted at the same time as me.

[caseye]

OK, now I've seen at least a partial response to my largish post. I'd invite you to ask YT MSTRS and Katman if any of them have given up? Cause I know for a fact that they haven't.
You've hit the nail on the head squarely and unfortunately can't see the results for the sparks flying everywhere.
This fight isn't going to be won in a chamber somewhere, not by talking with politicians, not by giving ordinary motorists reason to hate all motorcyclists as they see our filthy few to coin a phrase doing exactly as they please when and where they feel the urge.
It can only be won by presenting continuous pressure on weak points in the system, by applying pressure and not taking it off.
This sounds easy to do and it should be.
Butt, we can't get more than ten motorcyclists together without a fight about who should be able to ride where and when they want at whatever speed they want, let alone present a common face to the citizens of NZ or our ruddy Pollies.
For me the first thing to do would be to get as many motorcyclists as possible to NOMINATE ONE GROUP of motorcyclist interested people to represent them.
This means organising every little township , hamlet and sheep station where someone rides to actually say, yes we/I want to be heard and I'm going to put my faith in x y z group and hers a few buck to get things going.
We can't rely simply on KB or any other motorcyclists based medium to spread this word it must be our own doing it and doing it properly.
K sound OK so far?
Well 407, this is where it all turns to custard.
And we those of whom you have spoken so disparagingly of have got to this point, not one or twice but several times without once failing in themselves but always and consistently being left high and dry by the very people who want a voice but are too damned lazy to get off their backsides and actually do something about it, they have the defeatist attitude not these folk.
So we've reached a point where others have also reached.
Now what???

[Harry the Barstard]

Its ok guys.......by the time they regulate bikes so much that its no longer fun to ride or affordable to own one. We can all go and sell our bikes and buy jetpacks!!.....I cant wait for jetpacks!

[Brian407]

Okay, i get that, but I cant help wonder about how the message has been getting out to the hamlets and sheep stations. I'm aware of the fight because I spend a fair amount of time on the Internet (nature of my job until recently), but i'm also aware of many others who dont frequent the net, and are simply not aware that groups such as MAG, AAG, MSC, Bronz etc exist. How are you getting the message to those people.

I consider myself an average motorcyclist. I've been riding for almost 40 years, I read the newspaper most days, I listen to news as often as possible and I try to attend at least three rallies a year, finances permitting. I dont spend a lot of time at bike shops and dont subscribe to any bike mags. I read them when in waiting rooms, or when they're on the smoko room etc, but if it wasnt for the net, and the occasional story in a mag I wouldnt even be aware of the MSC, and I know plenty that arent.

My point is that maybe the message delivery system needs to be looked at, then the message itself needs looked at. Most people have little tolerance for long winded arguments in political speak, thats why the average man thinks that politicians are prats. If you have a 2 word message, use 5 words to get it across, not 200. You'll have lost most people at 20, and the majority of the remaining will give up at 50. Those die hards that stay till the last are already converted and theres nothing to be gained by trying to convince them. Underlying principle is KISS, and i'm sure you know what that means.

Yes there has be a co-ordinated approach, but first you have to find what most people are willing to support, and most people dont become passionate about a cause until they can actually see how it will directly affect them, so far the arguements presented have been far too general for most people to grasp. Be specific, and confront issues one at a time.

I fully expect this post to be met with howls of dismissave indignace and 'yes but' reponses, but if thats all that happens, at least it's ensured that the issues are alive and still being talked about.

[bogan]

Brian, you're coming off as an arm-chair shot caller, identifying problems for other to solve, without specific solutions. Nothing wrong with that, but getting off side with the doer's will not help the cause. And dismissing the doer's opinions as defeatism is a good way to get off side, as you've found out.

The reality of the situation, is for each biker, there is a penalty-apathy-chance number which governs their level of involvement. For some the extra rego isn't much of an issue, others just don't have motivation to get involved, and a lot think there is a very slim chance of effecting change. How do you address all three with such a short message? How many riders are fully aware and simply don't think it is worth getting involved in? Can those riders be convinced to change their minds? What will it take?

[avgas]

Yes. Have you?

Hell no.
I don't buy what they are selling.

[caseye]

Nice work and see you didn't have to alienate anyone doing it.Well with the accepted loss of the pollies and local bureaucrats.
Now then, I've got to say that once again what you've said has merit and yes the method of delivery has to be one that actually reaches the masses ( motorcycling masses that is and specifically the ones as yet not convinced)
Same about the one issue and keeping it simple stupid!
So far we've done that, or should i say it has been done this way by those groups attempting to get things done.
Where you will come unstuck is where we've all already been.
Getting "the pricks who just want to ride" to do anything is virtually impossible and of course they are our main detractors by default, their attitude is "I'll do it when I want and where I want"
Makes the rest of us look like pious twats when we've just asked to be taken seriously and then ten or so idiots run amok on the countries roads and before you know it everyone's going, damn bikers deserve all they get.
The message was getting to towns and cities virtually by members of associated groups making flyers and distributing them around the towns and cities bike shops and any other shop that would take them and by going to various other motorcycling groups who hadn't heard a damned thing about the groups and explaining what had been going on.These were particularly rewarding and served to get the message to many other non involved or otherwise contacted bikers.
The network was growing.
I know I was involved in getting it to happen as were YT, MSTRS etc etc.
I'm knackered from doing the little bit I did do. Others who have gone before us have done heaps more and are still here, but like me they've become cynical and distrusting of anyone who proclaims they can fix it.
However like me they would get right behind the person/persons who got something going .
Friends not enemies, we can discuss and argue well and with passion and without becoming personal and dismissive we have done so for ages.
Yes discussion is a good start but heres something else.
Once a platform has been decided on and a random sampling of the motorcyclist fraternity has come up with a consensus then there needs to be action.
Action needs to be the next step, real action, not a few silly blockades, not a random visit to pollies places.
Concerted action with the backing and support of people who have done it successfully overseas.Again something that was in hand and was returning results.
All of this good work went down the tubes because a few couldn't be bothered s said "why did you start this when we already had that?"
That was another argument altogether and one which has not yet been put to bed.
I've had it for now, I'll come back tomorrow and see what else has been said.

[caseye]

In case you didn't know it, bogan is/was! another doer.I second his accurate assessment of this thread to date.

[avgas]

So far, the only thing I see in unity is complaints about the ACC levies in our rego, but there is clearly no unified approach amongst motorcyclists about how to deal with that. Bottom line is until you can gain unity and stop the in-fighting you're never going to get anywhere.

Your not even man enough to risk riding without rego. Why the hell should we listen to you.
You can file all the paper work you want. At the end of the day your investing in their ideas 100%.

In your words, If you can't complain if you don't vote......well you can't complain if your paying for someone to screw you either.

[Brian407]

Your not even man enough to risk riding without rego. Why the hell should we listen to you.
You can file all the paper work you want. At the end of the day your investing in their ideas 100%.

In your words, If you can't complain if you don't vote......well you can't complain if your paying for someone to screw you either.

So how does defiance of the law by one or two help the cause. Only thing that does is fatten the coffers of the consolidated fund. If you want to be taken seriously by 'the system' learn to work within it. Widespread civil disobediance... well thats another matter.