Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[Flip]

For us to gain the sympathetic (read concerned) ear of the politicians we need to gain far greater public support.

To gain public support we need to be seen as existing within the bounds expected by society.

We have much to clean up in our own back yard before we can hope for anyone to take us seriously.

This would be the first time I have (and will) ever agreed with Katrman about anything.

In the 20's and 30's every working man had a motorcycle/combo and it was normal way to get to work. After 1950 and the invention of bike gangs motorcycling became an anti-social activity. Remember the Honda add "you meet the nicest people on a Honda". These days the bike gangs are dying of old age and everybody’s granddad, uncle, father and brother rides a motorbike for recreation. Motorcycling has become a normal way to go on holiday.

Motorcycling is becoming a normal recreational activity, sure the not undeserved label of temporary kiwis is going to be around for a while, but given the govt has commissioned the Safer Journeys document strongly suggests to me that motorcycling has become mainstream and normal and acceptable thing for people to do.

About my only concern with the Safer Journeys doc was it was a bit light on a re-training plan.

Personally as an old school rider, I don't feel comfortable becoming a mainstream activity.

[caseye]

Guys, keep this up and we might actually get somewhere.
Today I see discussion, not argument, I see good humour not sneering.These things are important to a group that wants to go forwards.
I see Steve's message and it's delivery the same way as many here do, direct, to the point and uncompromising and yes it does speak against most of the 10% of foolish riders who do give the rest of us a bad name, it's not everyone of us that is expected to conform(in most cases we do anyway, aye Phil?) just the 10% and we could help that along by not condoning their actions when they do behave stupidly, there's almost always more ordinary careful and respectful riders out and about than idiots, say something, don't condone it, do our personal individual best to make it unacceptable and who knows what can be changed.
Yes the back room boys are the ones we want to get our voices heard by, yes the older quietly spoken rider has a place in such circumstances and yes our very own Stoney and his 100% heartfelt supporters/organizers do deserve the thanks of most bikers for at least trying and achieving what was a significant milestone in biking history.
The pity is that no one was able to continue the momentum and carry off the prize of actually being listened to and taken some notice of.
That is why we are still writing screeds here in this thread.
If the objective was to topple the MOTO I'd be in!
Next???

[DMNTD:Me]

...Perhaps forceful lobbying to improve the standard of motorcycle training in the country would go far further than our current bitching and moaning about everything and everyone other than ourselves.

100% agreed but would also add that training directed towards car/truck/etc drivers re looking out for everyone else on the road (especially motorcyclists) would also be of great benefit for all.

[MSTRS:Me]

You signed up to KB in 2009, if what you say you are able to do is so effective, why weren't you here doing it then?
FUCK YOU!

Not at all, i'm more than happy to roll the sleeves up and be involved, problem is that I havent yet seen anyone come up with a specific issue to confront, just lots of generalisations of 'wanting to be the masters of our own destiny' which we all know simply isnt achievable.

Totally agree, but perhaps I should clarify a little. My 5 words message approach is aimed at getting riders on board to support a message to the politicians. Your 60's something, articulate, school teacher talking to the Grey Men in suits, without media is absolutely the right way to get the message to the law makers. But first things first, and the first thing is to find an issue that all (or at least many) will support, and it's my belief that as of yet that issue hasnt been found, and Berries has highlighted that perfectly.

I rest my case (if I ever had one). You want someone else to do it. Get it through your head - there is no-one else. Only you.
Collectively, we might be a threat to any given policy from govt or one of their agencies. But there is no collective.
12,000 of us went to parliament to protest a $500 hike in ACC levy. Barring multiple ownerships, that's 10% of bike riders. Not nearly enough to be considered a collective, cohesive force to be reckoned with.
Consider this - over 300,000 signed the petition re the repeal of Section 59. That's way over 10% of parents, but well under of the whole population. They managed to make a small difference to the outcome of that proposed change. Just like we did with the Bikeoi. But neither were the desired result, were they?
Individually, we are a voice in the wilderness. There's no threat in that.
We've had 'someone on the inside' - they were in the perfect place to do some good. But what happened? They were actually in the perfect place to be muzzled and controlled by those we seek to influence. When one in particular refused to be controlled, he was shafted and given the flick by the rest.
I've had discussions with some riders who work for some of the agencies that threaten us. They know the issues, they know what's going on and they know what's planned for the future. But they also won't declare themselves and speak up, because they won't risk their livelihoods. I know as many as 5 local cops who ride bikes - they ALL had their duty roster changed, and were told no excuses, so they would be working 17.11.09.

Now - this is not defeatist talk. It is just stating the situation. If you can come up with a way forward, one that will be supported by the majority because it will make a measurable improvement in even one thing that affects bikers - then please do so. If you can reach every biker in the country (cos KB is still only a small section of the total biker 'community') with even one thing they can relate to and support - then please do so. If you can finance (or know someone who will) any such effort - then please do so. If you know of a way to reach and influence the grey men - then please do so AND tell us what it is. Making submissions to a working paper isn't it either. We all do that as a matter of course.
Take the lead instead of pointing the finger of fail at all those who came before.

[Katman]

100% agreed but would also add that training directed towards car/truck/etc drivers re looking out for everyone else on the road (especially motorcyclists) would also be of great benefit for all.

Absolutely Chris.

But to be seen, by our own volition, to be taking a pro-active stance in our own safety would quite possibly spur the powers that be into expecting similar from all other road users.

[MSTRS:Me]

Absolutely Chris.

But to be seen, on our own volition, to be taking a pro-active stance in our own safety would quite possibly spur the powers that be into expecting similar from all other road users.

Admirable. But even more of a pipe dream than expecting all bikers to behave.

[Katman]

Admirable. But even more of a pipe dream than expecting all bikers to behave.

And even if they didn't John, we'd still have won simply by virtue of having improved our own chance of survival.

[MSTRS:Me]

And even if they didn't John, we'd still have won simply by virtue of having improved our own chance of survival.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% behind you (scary huh?).
However, I do think the reality is that there are only individual wins...as measured by the survival of individuals.

[Katman]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm 100% behind you (scary huh?).
However, I do think the reality is that there are only individual wins...as measured by the survival of individuals.

And if, in doing so, we could slash the average number of motorcyclist fatalities each year I think we could see some very useful leverage gained.

Attack needs to be made from a position of strength - not weakness.

[MSTRS:Me]

And if, in doing so, we could slash the average number of motorcyclist fatalities each year I think we could see some very useful leverage gained.

And that brings us back to some of the things some of us have been campaigning for...it's a package deal.

[Katman]

And that brings us back to some of the things some of us have been campaigning for...it's a package deal.

Except I don't recall in the past there being too much campaigning for a greater standard of motorcycling.

[swbarnett]

Some stupid picture....

Right back at ya!

If the roles were reversed and the number of registered bike far outweighed that of cars it would be the car drivers that would have that title or some equally undeserved label. It's a matter of yet another minority being discriminated against.

[StoneY]

Been here a bloody site longer than 5 minutes,

Not by KB standards fellah

And, i hope you're not referring to this forum as 'the coalface' because it's absolutely the wrong place to begin trying to organise people. I've been watching with interest for years while forums such as this bitch and moan, and amount to nothing.

And where do you think the 9000+ who went to the BIKOI were organised pal? Right here....on Kiwibiker.

I dont care if your talking motorcyclists or kindergarten kids, everybody can become united in the pursuit of a common goal. Trick is to make the goal worth pursuing, and thats never going to happen on this forum.

As above.
Off you go mr Policy Maker, I reckon you should go visit Gareth and his merry crew and impart your wisdom, maybe you can spend my 90$ I donated to the fund last year on my behalf.

[Brian407]

Except I don't recall in the past there being too much campaigning for a greater standard of motorcycling.

Now there's a step forward. Weve got to be seen to be cleaning up our own back yard before we can complain about someone elses. I've said in the past thats it's pathetically easy to get a licence in this country and theres no followup or refreshers after that. Address that, and thats what Safer Journeys is proposing (at least in part) and the standard will improve over time. Only once the overall standard improves will we have a dogs show of being taken seriously, and that, unfortunately, will take legislation. No amount of rallies and meetings to try and convince riders to clean up thier act is going to make a blind bit of difference, because most of them dont think theres anything wrong with the way they ride, as is evidenced here on a daily basis.

MSTRS, you accuse me of wanting 'someone else to do it'. Sorry buddy but thats simply not true, but I dont have a silver bullet solution, anymore than anyone else does, and its clear that there isnt one. It's blatantely obvious that there will never be a consensus amonst motorcyclists untill all agree on one specific issue that affects them. My only wish here was, and still is, that as many as possible provide submissions to the Safer Journeys document on the table at the moment and show that at least some of still care about our destiny. I got shot down for that, and I came back fighting. Is there something wrong with that. If you've got all the experience here, then surely you'll know of at least one specific issue that can be targeted (for me it's the woeful lack of training and licence standards) to get the ball rolling properly. Wars are won One Battle at a Time.

[James Deuce]

Guys, keep this up and we might actually get somewhere.
Today I see discussion, not argument, I see good humour not sneering.These things are important to a group that wants to go forwards.
I see Steve's message and it's delivery the same way as many here do, direct, to the point and uncompromising and yes it does speak against most of the 10% of foolish riders who do give the rest of us a bad name, it's not everyone of us that is expected to conform(in most cases we do anyway, aye Phil?) just the 10% and we could help that along by not condoning their actions when they do behave stupidly, there's almost always more ordinary careful and respectful riders out and about than idiots, say something, don't condone it, do our personal individual best to make it unacceptable and who knows what can be changed.
Yes the back room boys are the ones we want to get our voices heard by, yes the older quietly spoken rider has a place in such circumstances and yes our very own Stoney and his 100% heartfelt supporters/organizers do deserve the thanks of most bikers for at least trying and achieving what was a significant milestone in biking history.
The pity is that no one was able to continue the momentum and carry off the prize of actually being listened to and taken some notice of.
That is why we are still writing screeds here in this thread.
If the objective was to topple the MOTO I'd be in!
Next???

10%? I'd say 80-90% of riders need to review what they see as acceptable behaviour on the road. Having just got back on a bike after 2 years away and expecting to be useless, I went and spent time in carparks and on backroads reviewing practical and mental exercises, and lo and behold when I felt confident enough to hit the Rimutakas to commute to work for a couple of days last week saw two extremes of motorcycling activity that set my teeth on edge. Wrong side of the road, blind overtakes, overshooting corners and running into the fence on the wrong side of the road and traveling so slowly that a considerable (and frustrated) queue grows behind. It wasn't even me causing it! I'm really tired of being over and undertaken by "bikers" just for them to hold me up mid-corner 30m down the road.

Stoney? Nah. Les put a huge effort in, drafted much of the policy, led most of the negotiation and got thoroughly reamed with an awl for his reward. Such is the memory of the average biker, they don't even remember him a couple of years down the track. After holding the fort for a couple of decades while HOG and Ulysses spent vast sums on tassels, King and Queen seats, and backless chaps, Les kept BRONZ going and a weather eye on Givernment (sic) activity in regard to motorcycling. He invented the word "sheeple" for goodness sake, so carelessly thrown my way a few posts ago.

The way forward requires HOG and Ulysses to become politically active and slightly radicalised. They have the biggest active motorcycling memberships in the country, lots and lots of money, but absolutely no will to do anything about the marginilisation of motorcycling and its devotees. They have enough money to weather pretty much any "storm" that comes their way. Or maybe not. I do know they were pretty quiet last time around.

As MSTRS has said, 10,000 needs to turn into 100,000. We need to do the French biker thing and shut cities down. Despite the Social Engineering party having been gone from power for three years, it appears that the current lot have no qualms continuing with an essentially socialist concept.