Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[Ocean1]

I'll try to spell it out for you........

There is a huge number of motorcycle accidents that are caused through either stupidity, incompetance or inattention on the part of the motorcyclist.

There ya go, people. He has spelled it out. We know he's right.
Want we want to know is - how do you piss into the wind and not get your shoes wet?

Being right doesn't do the job. No more than running in small circles yelling that the sky is falling would stop it. Leme see, what can one usefully take from Steve's monolog...

Stupidity: There's no check for that when you get your licence, and the only person with the power to reduce the number of stupid motorcyclists is Darwin. For that matter I'm not sure you can quantify "stupid", I don't believe anyone here has never committed a stupid act. How many does it take to qualify?

Incompetence: Only one way to make people competent: train 'em. It's not a bad idea insomuch as it's actually achievable. It's not on the horizon, however because the government thinks training causes crashes.

Inattention: Again, we're no more likely to be immune to that than anyone else, and the trend is to remove a lot of the stimulus that keeps us focused. And in spite of Steve's ongoing chorus it's not a characteristic of general human behaviour anyone can change.

So, one outa three. I've seen worse. Looks to me like we need to focus on making training far more accessible, in spite of governments’ policy to the contrary.

I have a paddock. A veritable army of official officiousness would descend en mass should I be unwise enough to make it available for the purpose of teaching tiddlywinks, far less motorcycles riding. Fuckem. Can anyone contribute a small fleet of slightly scruffy 125 dirt bikes?

[NONONO]

Nice thought Brian, but be assured;
"They" will not listen. Not to polite arguments, to submissions, or to generational change behavior/perceptions.
"They" do not give a flying fuck what we do.
"They" have a political and ideological agenda that involves the sale of ACC.
"They" lied, "They" created a crisis that did not exist to further there aims. "They" stole from us.
"They" in my opinion are bastards, liars and thieves.

"We" gave too much ground. "We" conceded and compromised, and are still doing so.

Lets be clear here shall we?
What, given the best of all possibilities, would we want, if we could have it?
For me;
Parity with other road users.
Return to Woodhouse.
No further legal intrusion on my right to ride legally, as and how I please, wearing what I choose to wear, when I choose to wear it.

[Brian407]

Lets be clear here shall we?
What, given the best of all possibilities, would we want, if we could have it?
For me;
Parity with other road users.
Return to Woodhouse.
No further legal intrusion on my right to ride legally, as and how I please, wearing what I choose to wear, when I choose to wear it.

Laudable, i'm sure, but you know as well as the rest of us that its never going to happen, and the "as and how I please" argument is exactly the crux of the perception problem we have now. The definition of "as and how i please" varies wildly between riders. Some are good at it, and some are appallingly bad, but they're all riding 'as and how they please'. There has to be a improvement and wide spread acceptance of rider standards before we'll get anywhere on the perception front.

They will listen if we can show we're worth listening too.

[BMWST?]

For us to gain the sympathetic (read concerned) ear of the politicians we need to gain far greater public support.

To gain public support we need to be seen as existing within the bounds expected by society.

We have much to clean up in our own back yard before we can hope for anyone to take us seriously.

the mere act of riding a motorcycle puts us beyond the understanding of 60 percent of people.Moost car drivers dont even think about motorcyclists.When pressed they will revert to a Marlon Brando stereotype.Actual riding behaviour wont even enter there heads until acc or the like are mentioned.Motorcycles are dangeraous...ALL motorcycles..... not just the ones ridden by idiots.THATS the fight we have to win

[NONONO]

Laudable, i'm sure, but you know as well as the rest of us that its never going to happen, and the "as and how I please" argument is exactly the crux of the perception problem we have now. The definition of "as and how i please" varies wildly between riders. Some are good at it, and some are appallingly bad, but they're all riding 'as and how they please'. There has to be a improvement and wide spread acceptance of rider standards before we'll get anywhere on the perception front.

They will listen if we can show we're worth listening too.

No, you see you did the slight of hand thing, which I am used to here and so can pick it up.
I said "Ride LEGALLY as and how I please".
And they will not listen, because in their mind we are not worth listening to.
So Brian, Katman and the rest, what are your requests, wishlists or wants?

[Brian407]

the mere act of riding a motorcycle puts us beyond the understanding of 60 percent of people.Moost car drivers dont even think about motorcyclists.When pressed they will revert to a Marlon Brando stereotype.Actual riding behaviour wont even enter there heads until acc or the like are mentioned.Motorcycles are dangeraous...ALL motorcycles..... not just the ones ridden by idiots.THATS the fight we have to win

While I agree with the first part of your statement, I cant agree with the second. Motorcycles, like guns, ladders, aeroplanes etc are not in themselves dangerous, inherently unstable and potentionally dangerous maybe, but only dangerous in the hands of idiots. Did you have a pushbike when you were a kid? was it dangerous? possibly! did you do dangerous things on it? probably! Did your mother think it was dangerous when you were learing to ride it? almost certianly! Did you agree? almost certianly not!

I work with electricity. Dangerous I hear you say. No, i say. Potentially dangerous in the hands of the untrained, Absolutely. Most of you wouldnt even consider working with it without sufficient training, and quite rightly so, so what makes Motorcycling any different? It's a potentially dangerous activity, where you end up just a dead if you get it wrong, yet we're allowed to do it with almost no training whatsoever. In my book thats just plain crazy.

[BMWST?]

While I agree with the first part of your statement, I cant agree with the second. Motorcycles, like guns, ladders, aeroplanes etc are not in themselves dangerous, inherently unstable and potentionally dangerous maybe, but only dangerous in the hands of idiots. Did you have a pushbike when you were a kid? was it dangerous? possibly! did you do dangerous things on it? probably! Did your mother think it was dangerous when you were learing to ride it? almost certianly! Did you agree? almost certianly not!

I work with electricity. Dangerous I hear you say. No, i say. Potentially dangerous in the hands of the untrained, Absolutely. Most of you wouldnt even consider working with it without sufficient training, and quite rightly so, so what makes Motorcycling any different? It's a potentially dangerous activity, where you end up just a dead if you get it wrong, yet we're allowed to do it with almost no training whatsoever. In my book thats just plain crazy.

you are splitting hairs..i agree with you completely.Never the less the attitude of most non motorcyclists towards motorcyclists is mostly as i describe

[Ocean1]

only dangerous in the hands of idiots.

So every motorcyclist that's died in an accident is an idiot?

[Katman]

Actual riding behaviour wont even enter there heads until acc or the like are mentioned.Motorcycles are dangeraous...ALL motorcycles..... not just the ones ridden by idiots.THATS the fight we have to win

And how do you suggest we change their perception Einstein?

How about by showing that they're not actually as dangerous as many motorcyclists seem to make out.

[NONONO]

So, whats your goal here Brian?
What do you want to achieve?
Not even asking how you will achieve it, that's another question.
Given your focus on KISS, gimme something I can follow, something achievable that the Government will listen to in the next term.
Whats your bottom line? What are you willing to sacrifice?
You know mine, even though you say it's not achievable, I say we have given away enough already. Line in the sand.
What do you hope to achieve with your "work on the inside" (anyone remember Drummer?).

[BMWST?]

And how do you suggest we change their perception Einstein?

How about by showing that they're not actually as dangerous as many motorcyclists seem to make out.

motorcyclists dont think they are dangerous EINSTEIN

[Katman]

motorcyclists dont think they are dangerous EINSTEIN

[98tls]

motorcyclists dont think they are dangerous EINSTEIN

Internet motorcycling aint it grand,bunch of motorcyclists with some time on there hands pull up a chair and give an opinion for all.Not a crack at you personally fella just an observation after reading a few pages.I sometimes come back to this thread and think "whoops" ive logged in to an overseas based forum,theres 4 fellas i ride with as a rule all have read this thread at my pleading and all shake there heads and say the same thing "what the fuck is all there fuss about?what exactly are these guys so up in arms about?

[caseye]

"Drummer" took one look and ran screaming from the room.Now that is a dangerous fella.
Wonder how much he'd charge to carry in the IED??? lol.kidding. or not???

[NONONO]

I was sort of fond of Drummer, completely strange, but who am I to say?
Missed his earlier rantings, but he was sort of deranged in a flock wall paper sort of way.
Got the Yacht club thing started anyway.
Notice that Brian has yet to answer my last question, but that's up to him, it's only KB after all.