Car crushing in the ODT today (13 Dec)

[SMOKEU]

How old are you???

12??

Add 10 years to that. What about you?

[JMemonic]

I'm not aware of anyone dying due to a skid near my residence.

I'm still yet to see a convincing argument that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that holding 1 foot on the brake pedal and the other foot on the accelerator pedal simultaneously is suddenly going to kill someone. Is the car suddenly meant to blow up and kill an innocent bystander, or what's supposed to happen? Is a bit of tyre smoke going to cause the apocalypse?

Also committing random assaults on people has no relevance with doing skids, nor does threatening people.
A small percentage of people who do skids also commit random assaults and threaten people, and a small number of Harley riders are also gang members who deal drugs and kill people. Does that mean that every Harley rider is a criminal? I'm also sure that some paedophiles drive Holdens, but does that mean that every male Holden driver is a kiddy fiddler?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...h-by-Boy-Racer

Ok maybe not near you but for some reason I understood your claims that you knew more than the police and witnesses placed you close to the location. The other two cars you mentioned were involved were never used in the defence either. But the fact remains it was still a deliberate loss of traction that lead to the death of this child.

Using you logic a small number of Harley riders are judges, lawyers, crown prosecutors and police, does that mean every Harley rider is involved in the criminal justice system in some manner.

And I guessing you drive a Holden.

[JMemonic]

How old are you???

12??

He cant be I know an 11 year old with more common sense than him, and I am sure she would think he is a drop kick.

[JMemonic]

Yep and more are going to die while we decide which way to go. Me, a brick wall and a few rounds for those who kill with any sort of weapon, including a bloody vehicle.
Instant prison for fools and cars destroyed there and then, no matter who actually owns them.
Lets get it right for once.

Wont happen, simply prisons are over crowded and its better if they do PD, what is the going rate a couple of days wipes what 5k of fines? Expensive labour but worth every cent it costs us to provide lunch and a meeting point to plan their Saturday night out.

Sarcasm is so underrated.

Dam it if they are going to get PD them it should be detention as the name says, and they should not get off the fines so easy. The attitude is 'put it on my tab' and that's what the system does.

Never mind can't change the system I just try to keep myself alive.

[SMOKEU]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...h-by-Boy-Racer

Ok maybe not near you but for some reason I understood your claims that you knew more than the police and witnesses placed you close to the location. The other two cars you mentioned were involved were never used in the defence either. But the fact remains it was still a deliberate loss of traction that lead to the death of this child.

Using you logic a small number of Harley riders are judges, lawyers, crown prosecutors and police, does that mean every Harley rider is involved in the criminal justice system in some manner.

And I guessing you drive a Holden.

There's a huge difference between a stationary vehicle spinning its wheels compared to an out of control car drifting. I do NOT condone drifting on residential streets as I know how dangerous it can be. I know the case you're referring to, and the driver was NOT doing a burnout, he was DRIFTING. I was never anywhere near the location of that crash, I heard the whole thing on my scanner and I heard the rest from a third party.

This is a burnout. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbn9NG1VhPw Notice how the car is moving at minimal speed (although I still wouldn't do a skid with people standing around the car). It is unlikely that the car is suddenly going to go out of control and kill someone, and even though that level of smoke does create a hazard, most cars are incapable of producing that much tyre smoke. A burnout is arguably safer than overtaking another vehicle at 100kmh since the vehicle is barely moving.

This is a drift. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HfY8QufsUw This is dangerous as the driver could easily lose control and kill someone. This is NOT something I would do on residential streets.

I have never owned a Holden and I don't currently own a car.

[JMemonic]

There's a huge difference between a stationary vehicle spinning its wheels compared to an out of control car drifting. I do NOT condone drifting on residential streets as I know how dangerous it can be. I know the case you're referring to, and the driver was NOT doing a burnout, he was DRIFTING.

This is a burnout. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbn9NG1VhPw Notice how the car is moving at minimal speed (although I still wouldn't do a skid with people standing around the car). It is unlikely that the car is suddenly going to go out of control and kill someone, and even though that level of smoke does create a hazard, most cars are incapable of producing that much tyre smoke. A burnout is arguably safer than overtaking another vehicle at 100kmh since the vehicle is barely moving.

This is a drift. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HfY8QufsUw This is dangerous as the driver could easily lose control and kill someone. This is NOT something I would do on residential streets.

I have never owned a Holden and I don't currently own a car.

Whoa back up that truck, you defended him on this very forum, you made statements to the effect you knew more than was in the media, you have made comments in the past that drifting on public roads is ok along with other acts that including burnouts that have potential to cause harm and now you are trying to educate me as to the difference.

A skid is not a burnout, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skid, a skid is a loss of traction either accidental or deliberate and often occurs when there is some substance on the road that reduces traction, you know ice, water and painted lines or here's a good one, diesel that some idiot, (you know the kind you defend), pours on the road so they can do a burn out in their p.o.s. car which in reality could not pull the skin off a rice pudding.

I know what a burn out is and have owned several cars capable of chewing out rear tyres on dry roads from either stand or moving starts with out the aid of any lubricants, didn't mean I had to or needed to.

Wait until you have to pick yourself up of a corner thanks to some idiot's diesel, you might change your tune.

By the way there are locations around the country one can take a car where the law will not be offended if you do a burnout or drift but these places have rules and regulations for safety, most of the tougher ones are thanks to idiots on the road screwing it up for the rest of us. Oh hang on you know those who screwed it up so you should know all about this.

[SMOKEU]

Whoa back up that truck, you defended him on this very forum, you made statements to the effect you knew more than was in the media, you have made comments in the past that drifting on public roads is ok along with other acts that including burnouts that have potential to cause harm and now you are trying to educate me as to the difference.

A skid is not a burnout, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skid, a skid is a loss of traction either accidental or deliberate and often occurs when there is some substance on the road that reduces traction, you know ice, water and painted lines or here's a good one, diesel that some idiot, (you know the kind you defend), pours on the road so they can do a burn out in their p.o.s. car which in reality could not pull the skin off a rice pudding.

I know what a burn out is and have owned several cars capable of chewing out rear tyres on dry roads from either stand or moving starts with out the aid of any lubricants, didn't mean I had to or needed to.

Wait until you have to pick yourself up of a corner thanks to some idiot's diesel, you might change your tune.

By the way there are locations around the country one can take a car where the law will not be offended if you do a burnout or drift but these places have rules and regulations for safety, most of the tougher ones are thanks to idiots on the road screwing it up for the rest of us. Oh hang on you know those who screwed it up so you should know all about this.

In that case I did know more than what was mentioned in the media, due to the fact that I had a police scanner which I was listening to during, and immediately after the event occurred. The media don't mention every tiny detail on every single case either, they summarise the details that they think will make a good story.

So do you believe every thing the media says? It's best to take things in the media with a grain of salt, as the media tend to say that any young male car enthusiast is immediately a "boy racer" who is a serious danger to the public. Yes, burnouts do have the potential to cause harm. Just like driving around a corner has the potential to cause harm, stopping at a traffic light has the potential to cause harm, driving through an intersection also has the potential to cause harm. Eating your dinner has the potential to cause harm, too. Walking has the potential to cause harm, I slipped once when I was walking and broke some ribs. Walking is dangerous.

Words can have many meanings, and the term "skid" is often used to refer to a "burnout".

I never encouraged people to drift on the roads, and I never stated that it's OK to pour diesel or other slippery substances on public roads. I know the hazards these substances can cause as I have crashed a scooter from an undetermined slippery substance. I didn't enjoy having to pick myself up afterward, although no serious harm was done. It could have been worse.

The fact is that there are muppets just about everywhere. Some people who do burnouts take things to the next level by being stupid, some middle aged Corolla drivers are idiots too because they cross the centre line around blind corners. Some Kawasaki riders are muppets because they tailgate other road users when the roads are wet. Some Ducati riders are even known to ride their bikes drunk. That doesn't mean that ALL middle aged Corolla drivers, Kawasaki riders and Ducati riders are complete idiots who are going to wipe an innocent person out the next time they go out for a drive/ride. Oh, the horror.

[tigertim20]

skidz are pimp yo, etc etc etc.

you are losing here quite badly.

You have made a point that I do agree with, a stationary burnout isnt particularly dangerous, but I ask you, have you ever been to a sanctioned burnout comp? - you will find that there are barricades to provide a boundary between spectators and cars, because they CAN get out of control, get your wheels churning at 150km/hr, and yep, shit can happen. the same comps have fire marshalls, I have seen more than once a car catch fire during a burnout. there is a reason why events have those safety protocols.

youve said that most riders on big bikes go fast and speed here and there, yes, they do, but they do not do it in a residential area, where there are likely to be lots of young children, elderly, etc etc that are in close proximity. They dont do high speed and fill the air with clouds of toxic smoke. they dont do it at all hours of the day and night preventing people from quiet peaceful family time at home, or stopping them from getting sleep.

If a couple guys got into their car, went out of town, and did some burnouts by themselves, WITHOUT spraying the road with shit like diesel or oil (and leaving it there) and made sure they had some legal tyres to put on the car after the burnouts, and didnt wake people up, then nobody would give a fuck.

You are arguing a sole point here "Its not dangerous to do a stationary burnout" - which is in itself true, but when you add in the other factors and circumstances involved in MOST of the occaisions of young people doing a few burnouts, it's not only dangerous in the act itself, but it also wakes people up, it robs people of their right to peace and quiet, it causes quite expensive damage to roads that people have to pay for in their ever increasing rates payments, they leave dangerous slippery shit in the road surface that other cars OR MOTORCYCLES might lose traction on even when riding within the limit. factor in that these guys are also probably driving away on bald tyres half the time as well.

Christchurch was given a burnout pad bloody years ago. and guess what. fuckall people used it, because they want to be SEEN doing burnouts.

[Flip]

Not all honda riders are gay, but their bikes are.

All boy racers are at best wannabe criminals just as all members of the mafia are criminals. You see when you piss off enough people society turns it back on you and makes your life illegal and very difficult. The boy racers have nobody to blame but themselves, it was their stupid, childish, criminal behaviour that has landed them all on the wrong side of society. Boy racers are the new public enemy, what can they do, nothing just die.

In my book boy racers, rapists, murderers, drug dealers and kiddy fiddlers are all elements of society we can well live without.

[SMOKEU]

You have made a point that I do agree with, a stationary burnout isnt particularly dangerous, but I ask you, have you ever been to a sanctioned burnout comp? - you will find that there are barricades to provide a boundary between spectators and cars, because they CAN get out of control, get your wheels churning at 150km/hr, and yep, shit can happen. the same comps have fire marshalls, I have seen more than once a car catch fire during a burnout. there is a reason why events have those safety protocols.

youve said that most riders on big bikes go fast and speed here and there, yes, they do, but they do not do it in a residential area, where there are likely to be lots of young children, elderly, etc etc that are in close proximity. They dont do high speed and fill the air with clouds of toxic smoke. they dont do it at all hours of the day and night preventing people from quiet peaceful family time at home, or stopping them from getting sleep.

If a couple guys got into their car, went out of town, and did some burnouts by themselves, WITHOUT spraying the road with shit like diesel or oil (and leaving it there) and made sure they had some legal tyres to put on the car after the burnouts, and didnt wake people up, then nobody would give a fuck.

You are arguing a sole point here "Its not dangerous to do a stationary burnout" - which is in itself true, but when you add in the other factors and circumstances involved in MOST of the occaisions of young people doing a few burnouts, it's not only dangerous in the act itself, but it also wakes people up, it robs people of their right to peace and quiet, it causes quite expensive damage to roads that people have to pay for in their ever increasing rates payments, they leave dangerous slippery shit in the road surface that other cars OR MOTORCYCLES might lose traction on even when riding within the limit. factor in that these guys are also probably driving away on bald tyres half the time as well.

Christchurch was given a burnout pad bloody years ago. and guess what. fuckall people used it, because they want to be SEEN doing burnouts.

You've made a very good argument. I have been to a sanctioned burnout competition at Ruapuna, a V8 "Mag and Turbo" VE Commodore did a big skid and caught fire! That was hilarious.

[JMemonic]

Words can have many meanings, and the term "skid" is often used to refer to a "burnout".

Only to the illiterate that are 'boy racers'.

A skid is simply a skid, a burnout is what you are referring to, dam it the term comes from drag racing but you cant grasp the concept the two are different beasts.

Oh here is a question for you, after these social gatherings held on the side of the road, which cause sleepless nights to the locals or property damage you claim not to appreciate but encourage the gatherings that cause the mayhem, are there often stolen cars found near by, that have been set alight.

These are all honest folks you talk about who's only offence is to do a burnout, yeah right.

[jasonu]

Plonker, these "harmless" actions keep getting people killed, sure 'we' used to hoon/cruise/street race or what ever face you want to put on it, most of the time the police and MoT used to leave us alone as we did not go out of our way to harm personal property, threaten folks, commit random assault and attacks based on the colour of clothing worn by one person or any number of things I keep seeing in the media.

Plus Grandad in our day the autos available ie Escorts, Cortinas anb Hillman Hunters were not capable of doing the full on smokey drifts that the T cars the kids have these days and therefore were much less likely to get way out of shape. Even the old straight six Valiants and v8 Falcons etc were useless compaired to say turbo Skylines and Legacys.

[jasonu]

Wont happen, simply prisons are over crowded and its better if they do PD, what is the going rate a couple of days wipes what 5k of fines? Expensive labour but worth every cent it costs us to provide lunch and a meeting point to plan their Saturday night out.

Sarcasm is so underrated.

Dam it if they are going to get PD them it should be detention as the name says, and they should not get off the fines so easy. The attitude is 'put it on my tab' and that's what the system does.

Never mind can't change the system I just try to keep myself alive.

Agreed. If the fine can't be paid then PD should be applied at the rate of say $10 per hour until the fine is worked off. ie $5000 fine = 6 months of 10hr per day weekends clearing council drains or cleaning public bogs.

[Katman]

All boy racers are at best wannabe criminals just as all members of the mafia are criminals. You see when you piss off enough people society turns it back on you and makes your life illegal and very difficult. The boy racers have nobody to blame but themselves, it was their stupid, childish, criminal behaviour that has landed them all on the wrong side of society. Boy racers are the new public enemy, what can they do, nothing just die.

In my book boy racers, rapists, murderers, drug dealers and kiddy fiddlers are all elements of society we can well live without.

Can you not see how residents who happen to live along the route of the Akaroa GP or the Coro GP (or any other GP route the country has) might have exactly the same view of motorcyclists?

[DMNTD:Me]

Plus Grandad in our day the autos available ie Escorts, Cortinas anb Hillman Hunters were not capable of doing the full on smokey drifts that the T cars the kids have these days and therefore were much less likely to get way out of shape. Even the old straight six Valiants and v8 Falcons etc were useless compaired to say turbo Skylines and Legacys.

Oh hell yes they could...when you filled the washer squirties with oil and diesel and directed the hose onto the rear tyres!