Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 14:49

Originally Posted by riffer

One big point I have to make.

Give up on your straw man arguments. There is NO POINT in comparing motorcycle injuries and deaths to injuries and deaths FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE because they're simply not relevant to the discussion here.

In the last five years of stats (1996 - 2010) there were 2105 motorcycle accidents. Not a lot, but still significant.

And here's what the Police have recorded as the causative human factors for the accidents where one could establish clear factors:

Alcohol 326
Overtaking 154
Speed 470
Fatigue 24

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why they concentrate on alcohol and speeding does it?

Still, there's 1376 accidents they have no information recorded as to causative human factors.

682 of those are single vehicle accidents. That's at least 30% of ALL accidents involving motorcycles in the last five years that have no recorded causative human factors.

I would like to find out what really happened in these accidents.

How many of the 2105 (assuming it's correct) had multiple causes? Cos I have a shortfall of 245...
Besides, a statistically significant number didn't have the type/cc of bike recorded and did not record location (road - offroad).
I can tell you that 3 of those single bike accidents actually occurred all together due to some f-wit letting 4 litres of oil spill on a corner = 1 death, 1 major injuries, 1 moderate injuries. You can bet your last dollar that they were recorded as single bike/lost control on a bend (ie - rider error).

**NONONO** · 3rd January 2012, 15:14

Originally Posted by riffer

One big point I have to make.

Give up on your straw man arguments. There is NO POINT in comparing motorcycle injuries and deaths to injuries and deaths FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE because they're simply not relevant to the discussion here.

In the last five years of stats (1996 - 2010) there were 2105 motorcycle accidents. Not a lot, but still significant.

And here's what the Police have recorded as the causative human factors for the accidents where one could establish clear factors:

Alcohol 326
Overtaking 154
Speed 470
Fatigue 24

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why they concentrate on alcohol and speeding does it?

Still, there's 1376 accidents they have no information recorded as to causative human factors.

682 of those are single vehicle accidents. That's at least 30% of ALL accidents involving motorcycles in the last five years that have no recorded causative human factors.

I would like to find out what really happened in these accidents.

Had a piece of research, way back when, that spoke to this. Will try and dig it out again.
Something about lack of any real consistency in both investigation and reporting of road traffic accidents in NZ. Also discussed CASA and the issues with data input and interpretation.
Was critical of the police approach which it said made a rush to "Fault" rather than "Cause"..will have a look.
And Riffer, of course looking at other examples and areas is relevant, bigger picture eh?

**Brian d marge** · 3rd January 2012, 15:37

In a caring, egalitarian society ( which we sort off, had.)
this conversation and loads like it, would be null and void
the question therefore, is why are we becoming a self centred divided community?
one reason I feel is that, by dividing people, demonising one section, Maori, yoof Islam, gays, . You can manipulate the larger group. example, all of the laws around "the evil terrorist " blasted through under urgency...
a few greedy people have made the average persons life a touch difficult,,
yes, social costs have gone up ( the oldies, and a large voting block to boot..)
but that's why I pay taxes, (happily) ...but get pissed off when services aren't met and our assets are stripped, or the costs rise due to shareholders demanding a profit ( basic services are not businesses, they are basic services.)
Acc is a world leader, is doing OK and i don't care whose fault it was we have a basic human responsibility to care for our community
well done acc and well done those who are trying to keep it I for one appreciate your efforts

Stephen

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 15:43

Originally Posted by Brian d'marge

Acc is a world leader, is doing OK and i don't care whose fault it was we have a basic human responsibility to care for our community
well done acc and well done those who are trying to keep it I for one appreciate your efforts

I also appreciate ACC's efforts.

It's the contempt with which New Zealand has treated the concept that fucks me off. It was never meant to be a "fuck you Jack, it's my right to act as stupidly as I please" potion.

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd January 2012, 15:47

Originally Posted by Katman

I also appreciate ACC's efforts.

It's the contempt with which New Zealand has treated the concept that fucks me off. It was never meant to be a "fuck you Jack, it's my right to act as stupidly as I please" potion.

Got that right. As per usual, the few fuck it up for the many. Tis the NZ way.

**Brian d marge** · 3rd January 2012, 16:02

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Got that right. As per usual, the few fuck it up for the many. Tis the NZ way.

ah the minority ... there are a few but most people are just hard working average persons, ( we could demonise them .... make it look like they are causing the country's debt to skyrocket:-) )
kill the poor... ostracize the foolish...it is after all them other people that are costing us so much money ...bastards...

Stephen

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 16:04

Originally Posted by Brian d'marge

ah the minority ... there are a few but most people are just hard working average persons, ( we could demonise them .... make it look like they are causing the country's debt to skyrocket:-) )
kill the poor... ostracize the foolish...it is after all them other people that are costing us so much money ...bastards...

Stephen

I'd settle for just penalising the deliberately stupid ones.

**Fatt Max** · 3rd January 2012, 16:08

Originally Posted by yungatart

Anyone would think I had violent tendencies...

...........and that is what scares me most, for I have seen and felt it......

**Fatt Max** · 3rd January 2012, 16:32

May as well chuck my $0.02 in for what its worth.

I can see the many sides to this debate and have a certain amount of afiliation to all points of view. I do subscribe to the notions that:

a - We are responsible for our own conduct and safety as individuals and collectively
b - The stats have always been flawed to some degree
c - MOTO NZ have turned out to be a piss poor representation of motorcyclists but I still believe they had t be given a chance
d - The action groups tried but its really hard to get cohesive agreement
e - As a founder member of one of these groups, I am sorry that we could not achive more but as soon as ego and personal agenda come into the equasion, the focus and aim was lost. I should have done more to combat that but I did not.
f - I was all for uniting the biker community and still am.
g - because I have met some of the best people I have ever known through motorcycling.....so there...

I salute all points of view and I hope that remark does not 'offend' anyone as trying to be nice and supportive has got me in trouble in the past (maybe cos I is fat).

Did we have a chance to change things through the last election..? Who knows but we are dealing with politicians so who knows.

I just hope that somehow we can re-ignite a proactive and effectice resistance to the current undertow that threatens to disrupt our lifestyles. I will be 110% behind any effort to do that......might even write another song.....

As I sad, my $0.02 worth

**Conquiztador** · 3rd January 2012, 16:33

I will put my neck out and try to summarise what I get from this thread (and other ones similar to this one):

- We are all worried regarding how mc-biking in NZ will look like in a near future.
- We agree that in our current state of individualism we have no power to affect the ones who makes the decisions.
- We feel that our only hope is to get all (or at least most) bikers to take a stand for the same issue, but we can not agree on the issue.
- We are waiting for someone else to put all this together and then we will scrutinise what he/she/they have come up with before we decide if we will support the cause or shoot it down.

Really, our only realistic hope is that our government decides to impale us on a new piece of anti-biker legislation that will hurt us all. The irony here is that only once we are bleeding will we act. But by then it is too late.

**Katman** · 3rd January 2012, 16:35

Originally Posted by Fatt Max

(maybe cos I is fat).

Well it ain't 'cos you is black.

**Fatt Max** · 3rd January 2012, 16:37

Originally Posted by Katman

Well it ain't 'cos you're black.

Lord knows I've tried mate.......

**Brian d marge** · 3rd January 2012, 16:53

Originally Posted by Conquiztador

I will put my neck out and try to summarise what I get from this thread (and other ones similar to this one):

- We are all worried regarding how mc-biking in NZ will look like in a near future.
- We agree that in our current state of individualism we have no power to affect the ones who makes the decisions.
- We feel that our only hope is to get all (or at least most) bikers to take a stand for the same issue, but we can not agree on the issue.
- We are waiting for someone else to put all this together and then we will scrutinise what he/she/they have come up with before we decide if we will support the cause or shoot it down.

Really, our only realistic hope is that our government decides to impale us on a new piece of anti-biker legislation that will hurt us all. The irony here is that only once we are bleeding will we act. But by then it is too late.

Thats about right , can I add one more , NO DONUTS for those who don’t deserve them

Stephen