Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[Katman]

Having spent time at the MOT, LTSA in the Tony Bliss days, LTNZ, Police and ACC head offices discussing road safety over the last 15 years I still don't believe that rumour.

How did it start again?

I believe this was the start of it.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129551114

Whether there is any real truth in it or not, I believe it would be prudent to seriously consider the possibility and work toward ensuring the idea doesn't gather any momentum.

[Virago]

...I dont care if your talking motorcyclists or kindergarten kids, everybody can become united in the pursuit of a common goal. Trick is to make the goal worth pursuing, and thats never going to happen on this forum...

...I'm not decrying the work of others, dont doubt that there are some hard working people out there, but this whole idea of uniting all motorcyclists in a common cause is simply a joke. It's never going to happen, so why the fuck expend resources and time into an idea that you know wont work...

...All these groups doing stuff is great, but isnt it time they learned to play together, instead of against each other. Most of these groups are started by the disgruntled former members of other groups in the first place, becasue they felt they wernt being heard. Harldy a great platform to start from, is it?

Now really impress me and get a consensus from all the groups...

Contradictory much...?

[Brian407]

Contradictory much...?

Ummmm, are you a fuckwit or what. I think the first quote made it clear that everyone, even children, are capable of uniting for a common goal, and the next two make it clear that no fucker here can agree on what the common goal is so no unity is ever going to happen.

And dont just trot out the frequent diatribe that all motorcyclists want equality, or no ACC, or no rules or whatever, because as a goal thats far too broad to be of any fucken use whatsoever. Your goal might to take over the world, but you've got to have a few smaller goals to achieve along the way or it's never going to happen.

You can cut and paste quotes till the cows come home for all I care, at least it proves you're reading them, and who knows, maybe, just maybe, you'll find something useful in them. But, at the end of the day, I dont really care because, at the beginning, I was told this forum was a waste of time, and many on it are simply a waste of oxygen and couldnt see the light if it was shining directly in their face, and they were right.

[bikaholic]

Ummmm, are you a fuckwit or what. I think the first quote made it clear that everyone, even children, are capable of uniting for a common goal, and the next two make it clear that no fucker here can agree on what the common goal is so no unity is ever going to happen.

And dont just trot out the frequent diatribe that all motorcyclists want equality, or no ACC, or no rules or whatever, because as a goal thats far too broad to be of any fucken use whatsoever. Your goal might to take over the world, but you've got to have a few smaller goals to achieve along the way or it's never going to happen.

You can cut and paste quotes till the cows come home for all I care, at least it proves you're reading them, and who knows, maybe, just maybe, you'll find something useful in them. But, at the end of the day, I dont really care because, at the beginning, I was told this forum was a waste of time, and many on it are simply a waste of oxygen and couldnt see the light if it was shining directly in their face, and they were right.

One minute you are saying the FF won't want anything harder from farmboys to get licences, nek minnit you are advocating the german licence system, contradiction.

talk to the hand.

[Virago]

Ummmm, are you a fuckwit or what. I think the first quote made it clear that everyone, even children, are capable of uniting for a common goal, and the next two make it clear that no fucker here can agree on what the common goal is so no unity is ever going to happen.

And dont just trot out the frequent diatribe that all motorcyclists want equality, or no ACC, or no rules or whatever, because as a goal thats far too broad to be of any fucken use whatsoever. Your goal might to take over the world, but you've got to have a few smaller goals to achieve along the way or it's never going to happen.

You can cut and paste quotes till the cows come home for all I care, at least it proves you're reading them, and who knows, maybe, just maybe, you'll find something useful in them. But, at the end of the day, I dont really care because, at the beginning, I was told this forum was a waste of time, and many on it are simply a waste of oxygen and couldnt see the light if it was shining directly in their face, and they were right.

At the end of the day, all you have to offer is insults and contradictory diatribe. Nothing else.

You have a low opinion of forum users. But you are one yourself - and despite your constant derisive claims that you're out of here to go and do your good works where it matters, you keep coming back to offer up more abuse. Who's the fuckwit...?

As Hitcher said earlier, the other forum users will see you for what you are, and will treat you accordingly.

If you want to be taken seriously, either put up, or shut up. Show us what you've got - 'cause so far it's just hot air and finger-pointing.

[riffer]

I'll second that Virago.

Full disclosure time Brian. I'll go first.

My name's Simon Gotlieb. I'm a Ulysses and BRONZ member, I'm on the Wellington BRONZ Executive Team and I'm a BRONZ Federation representative. I've been on motorcycles since the age of 8, been riding them since I was 12. I'm nearly 45.

My role at BRONZ is primarily Media Liaison and Comms, I also assist with meeting and talking to politicians, responding to RFPs, creating OIA requests, writing reports to committees and organisations (including Government ones) and sometimes I front up and represent BRONZ publicly when bikers issues are under threat (like at Parliament and at City Council when they try and take away bikers parking).

Tell us, what exactly have you been doing? Perhaps if we actually knew what you did we'd be able to find common ground to work together.

Simon (riffer)

[Brian407]

One minute you are saying the FF won't want anything harder from farmboys to get licences, nek minnit you are advocating the german licence system, contradiction.

talk to the hand.

Do you not read?? Of course I'm saying that the Feds dont want to play ball, but i'm not saying i agree with them ! Abso-fucken-lutely i'm advocating the German system, or similair. How is that contradictory????

[bikaholic]

... but the major fly in the ointment is the Farmers, and for that reason alone the government are scared to go too far with it. Federated Farmers are apposed to ANY initiative that will make it harder for farm boys to get a licence, and when Fed Farmers speak up the govt listens. It you want to make any REAL headway with licence issues, you got to get it past the Feds first or it's dead in the water.

.

Where is the source for this crap?

[GrayWolf]

One minute you are saying the FF won't want anything harder from farmboys to get licences, nek minnit you are advocating the german licence system, contradiction.

talk to the hand.

The european style licence system is one worth considering. We are heading towards the LAM's bikes and it's a natural progression from that idea. I know that there will always be outcry about restricting acess to high power machines, hell I know I would have 'hated it' many moons ago. We all have issues with govt proposals and the way bikes are percieved by TPTB. Really in truth if you look back over the last 40yrs bikes have become exponentialy more powerful and the training is no better. If we all put ego aside, the acceleration of the average 600cc plus bike is faster than we can react in the event of an emergency. Would stepping the licence to include extra training, experience and a test before accessing higher power machines be so disgusting? To put it into a real life view, the average 600cc sport bike will make the old 'king' ZI 900 look like a bloody moped for performance. That bike was considered 'overkill' for power back then. It is only 'demand' ego?? that has kept the forward march for faster and faster machines. Yes racing does improve the breed, but really at the cost of 'usable' performance. Most 600cc plus bikes are into licence losing territory even before they are operating at optimum in top gear. BMW produced quite acceptable performance even with the 100bhp limit imposed by the german govt. Yet most here will sneer and call them underpowered bikes. Well sometimes those 'underpowered' bikes have their own attributes that can be as exciting to explore.

[riffer]

There is a lot to commend in the concept of the step beyond Full licence, and regular readers probably already know my opinion of the idea.
Whether or not other motorcyclists accept it (or even agree) is another matter.

[NONONO]

The issue is that in many poorer areas of New Zealand, the rates of un-licenced drivers are soaring.

As the test has become harder and more expensive, many poorer people are finding it beyond their reach. The good ones get used to begging rides, and taking the bus.

Many drive anyway.

While we can (and do) impound vehicles, the system is actually pretty limited in its ability to sanction the really poor. We cant fine them. They don't attend community service sentences, and when we impound vehicles, they simply go and get another one as its easier and cheaper (and faster) that waiting 28 days and paying a fortune to get the old shitter back.

We end up, at massive expense, either abandoning any attempt at punishment, or we have to resort to prison.

Its not to say that we should not try and improve driver standards via the licencing system. But we have to balance the cost of putting licences out of reach.

Additionally, your Drivers Licence is your National ID card. Politicians want you on that database, and hesitate to put in measures that discourage people from paying government for an ID card.

Great post.
And in addition...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7982547.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7982547.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8582141.stm
All have been posted before, but easy to forget in the face of all this "common sense".

[davereid]

Its actually already happened.

As Kaitaia didn't have traffic lights to do the new test, the NZTA wants everyone to go a hundred miles to do a test at another town.

Of course the Kaitaia drivers once they have sat their test wont have to face another set of traffic lights, possibly for years.

The real hazards they will face like wandering stock, horses, metal roads, milk tankers and logging trucks, will remain untested.

The outcome ?

No one in Kaitaia will be a better driver. And lots simply wont bother with what has become a complicated and expensive urban driving test for complicated rural roads.

In fact Im sure the "Northern Advocate" published the fact that since the test had moved, NO ONE had bothered to sit it, but as always, when you want to find it, google lets you down.

[Madness]

I thought Brain had fucked off?

[riffer]

I thought Brain had fucked people off?

There. Fixed your post for you.

[NONONO]

Its actually already happened.

As Kaitaia didn't have traffic lights to do the new test, the NZTA wants everyone to go a hundred miles to do a test at another town.

Of course the Kaitaia drivers once they have sat their test wont have to face another set of traffic lights, possibly for years.

The real hazards they will face like wandering stock, horses, metal roads, milk tankers and logging trucks, will remain untested.

The outcome ?

No one in Kaitaia will be a better driver. And lots simply wont bother with what has become a complicated and expensive urban driving test for complicated rural roads.

In fact Im sure the "Northern Advocate" published the fact that since the test had moved, NO ONE had bothered to sit it, but as always, when you want to find it, google lets you down.

Yep, you REALLY got to be careful what you wish for, and what you wish for other people.