Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[FatHead]

The sooner we all agree that there's too many motorcycle accidents and it's up to us to reduce them, the sooner we might start seeing some progress.

What he ^ Said.
We must all take responsibility for ourselves and work on those who are of the opinion they are the only motorists (not just motorcyclists who are dickheads) on the road and they own the right to be there.

We all pay our taxes to allow us the standard of roads we currently enjoy and having read the document that started this thread I am ever hopeful (yes trying to stay optomistic about the process) that eventually we will have even better roads some time in the future. The only thing I can see that they have left out of the proposal, and it has been said in this thread somewhere else, is that as well as more driver training for Motorcyclists (compulsory retesting if it comes to that for some) is for other road users to be required to meet more stringent test criteria and also be retested from time to time prior to them becoming senior citizens. We could also take a more draconian stance as some foreign countries do and require that certain accidents or incidents result in the removal of your license until the test is readministered and passed. In these countries the testing also costs in the region of $1000 each time it is administered.

"safe journeys" everyone

[Katman]

Explain to me what I/we can do to stop other riders from having accidents.


Not wishin' to tempt fate here but personally, I've been doin' fine on four wheels and two wheels for about the last 35 years.

We live in a world that has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

Our ability to enjoy motorcycling is being eroded by that lowest common denominator.

Therefore, we have to lose the apparent acceptance of totally avoidable accidents and start insisting that the lowest common denominator start lifting their game.

[Katman]

And furthermore, we have to actually be seen, by both TPTB and the general public, to be insisting on that improvement.

[avgas]

We live in a world that has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

Our ability to enjoy motorcycling is being eroded by that lowest common denominator.

Therefore, we have to lose the apparent acceptance of totally avoidable accidents and start insisting that the lowest common denominator start lifting their game.

Or crash better.

[avgas]

The sooner we all agree that there's too many motorcycle accidents and it's up to us to reduce them, the sooner we might start seeing some progress.

There are too many motorbike accidents. I blame the motorists.
When does it get high enough to start culling them off?

[trustme]

There are too many motorbike accidents. I blame the motorists.
When does it get high enough to start culling them off?

Most motorbike accidents don't involve motorists
Hence TPTB find it easier to cull motorcyclists by legislation.
That will only stop when the collective WE get our act together & improve our safety record

Clockwork you have to stop thinking it is everyone else that is the problem.
When did you last go on a training course ? Are your skills as good as they could be ?

Everyone moans about the poor standard of driving in NZ. What makes us think that we as riders are any better.
There is no logic to that assumption

[Scuba_Steve]

Everyone moans about the poor standard of driving in NZ. What makes us think that we as riders are any better.
There is no logic to that assumption

Studies find it so, & bikers (as a general rule) want to be on the road, we ain't on it "just cause we have to be" So being something we love, we appreciate it not just use it. Somewhat the same diff between computer "geeks" vs computer users

[Conquiztador]

This is not rocket science:
- Make getting the bike license harder (as per some European countries).
- Make it compulsory to re-sit license ever 5 years.
- Make a doctors certificate compulsory every 5 years.
- Make riding skill training a yearly compulsory thing if a rider wants to keep his/her license.

AND (here comes the bit that you have been waiting for...)
- Give all the training (and licensing requirements) to not-4-profit organisations to run. (Working on a break even result where no money is required for any share holders)
- Subsidise the compulsory training, etc. from the $30/year we pay as bikers, from savings in ACC costs, from lower costs in accidents, from part of the $300 million spent yearly to police the roads, from say 0.1 cents/litre of petrol sold, from not having to add more draconian laws and the costs associated. (And if that is not enough I recon we can come up with more ideas to ultimately save more money for the gummint.)

[bikaholic]

I am sure most would do whatever is required to renew their licences, but it is round the corner out of sight that their human behavioural patterns will no longer be suppressed.

[Conquiztador]

I am sure most would do whatever is required to renew their licences, but it is round the corner out of sight that their human behavioural patterns will no longer be suppressed.

I work in an industry where we train people all the time. Again and again. And it does make a difference. Even the thickest learns something after a few times.

[bikaholic]

I work in an industry where we train people all the time. Again and again. And it does make a difference. Even the thickest learns something after a few times.

I agree with you, but some issues are attitude or behavioural, which are harder to test for.
For instance passing a licence and then wheelstanding all the way home, or a cage driver on learners self driving unacompanied to the restricted test.

[Scuba_Steve]

This is not rocket science:
- Make getting the bike license harder (as per some European countries).
- Make it compulsory to re-sit license ever 5 years.
- Make a doctors certificate compulsory every 5 years.
- Make riding skill training a yearly compulsory thing if a rider wants to keep his/her license.

AND (here comes the bit that you have been waiting for...)
- Give all the training (and licensing requirements) to not-4-profit organisations to run. (Working on a break even result where no money is required for any share holders)
- Subsidise the compulsory training, etc. from the $30/year we pay as bikers, from savings in ACC costs, from lower costs in accidents, from part of the $300 million spent yearly to police the roads, from say 0.1 cents/litre of petrol sold, from not having to add more draconian laws and the costs associated. (And if that is not enough I recon we can come up with more ideas to ultimately save more money for the gummint.)

You lose me a bit here
Yes
No
No
No
Yes
N/A

You might be making the big bucks & have the time spare, but me, I do not. If this came in I'd simply ride without a licence I couldn't afford the cost nor the time to do it.

[caseye]

It's ideas in here guys not absolutes, I'd pretty much agree with you scuba but the idea is to get one Train of thought/idea going that most are/would be willing to see through.

[Conquiztador]

You lose me a bit here
Yes
No
No
No
Yes
N/A

You might be making the big bucks & have the time spare, but me, I do not. If this came in I'd simply ride without a licence I couldn't afford the cost nor the time to do it.

No need for big bucks. "Subsidised" was the word. 100,000 riders makes 20,000/year for license. And 100,000/year for upskilling/rider training would cost very little. It is a numbers game.

We pay $30/year towards "fixing" the issue. That makes $3million/year. Add the other bits I stated and I estimate the amount that would be available to do this would be approx $20 million/year. Making it $200/year per rider. Easily enuf for the full upskilling cost.

So no cost for upskilling. And I am sure there would be enuf to subsidise a little every 5 years for the doctors cert and the license too.

[Scuba_Steve]

No need for big bucks. "Subsidised" was the word. 100,000 riders makes 20,000/year for license. And 100,000/year for upskilling/rider training would cost very little. It is a numbers game.

We pay $30/year towards "fixing" the issue. That makes $3million/year. Add the other bits I stated and I estimate the amount that would be available to do this would be approx $20 million/year. Making it $200/year per rider. Easily enuf for the full upskilling cost.

So no cost for upskilling. And I am sure there would be enuf to subsidise a little every 5 years for the doctors cert and the license too.

it would still be a hell of a cost for me & I'm one of the "better off" ones there are plenty with less than me (plenty with more too )

Then fact is while the Govt will love the idea of forcing more money outta people, the training & licensing you mention will continue to be sub-par, probably get worse than current & they won't be subsidizing (A Govt payout money ) or if they do it'll be part of higher fees, which then a few years later they'll still drop the sub but continue to collect the fees