NZ arrests in US-led copyright operation

[davereid]

I have a lot of misgivings around this entire arrest. Without entering in a debate about copyright (which I think is a debate well worth having), I think the issue here is bigger than that.

I'm concerned that a man of apparent bad character can simply buy his way into New Zealand.

But Im more concerned at the entire scenario.

Unless I have got it wrong, a German citizen, the CEO of a Hong Kong based company, allegedly broke US copyright law, and was arrested under US law in New Zealand.

And our police, keen no doubt to show the FBI observers how modern and efficient they are, hired two helicopters, to mount a raid on his mansion, in a style you would expect for a T.V. show on major crime about forced child slavery or something, rather than the alleged crime of facilitating copyright violation.

If Mr. Dotcom had actually broken New Zealand law, then the FBI should have simply provided NZ police with the evidence and left it up to them.

Instead it appears the FBI whistled, and our police came running like terriers to show how good they are.

The fawning puppy like reaction of OUR authorities to the US request raises many more questions about our sovereignty and corruption at government levels than it raises about breaches of copyright.

IMHO this could spell the end of the free internet as we know it. This may set a precedent that the US can enforce its internet laws in any country it chooses.

[awayatc]

IMHO this could spell the end of the free internet as we know it. This may set a precedent that the US can enforce its internet laws in any country it chooses.

And that would be the least of our worries..................

Compared to all else the world has lost to "uncle" Sam

[BoristheBiter]

I have a lot of misgivings around this entire arrest. Without entering in a debate about copyright (which I think is a debate well worth having), I think the issue here is bigger than that.

I'm concerned that a man of apparent bad character can simply buy his way into New Zealand.

But Im more concerned at the entire scenario.

Unless I have got it wrong, a German citizen, the CEO of a Hong Kong based company, allegedly broke US copyright law, and was arrested under US law in New Zealand.

And our police, keen no doubt to show the FBI observers how modern and efficient they are, hired two helicopters, to mount a raid on his mansion, in a style you would expect for a T.V. show on major crime about forced child slavery or something, rather than the alleged crime of facilitating copyright violation.

If Mr. Dotcom had actually broken New Zealand law, then the FBI should have simply provided NZ police with the evidence and left it up to them.

Instead it appears the FBI whistled, and our police came running like terriers to show how good they are.

The fawning puppy like reaction of OUR authorities to the US request raises many more questions about our sovereignty and corruption at government levels than it raises about breaches of copyright.

IMHO this could spell the end of the free internet as we know it. This may set a precedent that the US can enforce its internet laws in any country it chooses.

Copyright law is actually a world wide law, generally policed by the nations own police force.

The problem is now you can break copyright and not be in that country as with the internet.

Maybe the way you should look at it, and i too have misgivings with an American police force operating in NZ, is you can no longer do what you want on the internet and get away with breaking laws. Similarly to what they do with with the likes of pedo's on the net.

The other part is you have no protocol information on this operation so are just making assumption's. You will generally find they are here in an observational role until the NZ police hand them over to be returned back to the US.

[davereid]

Copyright law is actually a world wide law, generally policed by the nations own police force.

The problem is now you can break copyright and not be in that country as with the internet.

Maybe the way you should look at it, and i too have misgivings with an American police force operating in NZ, is you can no longer do what you want on the internet and get away with breaking laws. Similarly to what they do with with the likes of pedo's on the net.

The other part is you have no protocol information on this operation so are just making assumption's. You will generally find they are here in an observational role until the NZ police hand them over to be returned back to the US.

Well they can't be returned back to the US, as they didn't come from the US.

I accept that you can no longer do what you want on the internet and get away with breaking laws.

Thats why I made the point that if Mr. Dotcom had broken NZ laws then I entirely agree that the FBI could give the information to the NZ police, and they could arrest him.

The issue is, we are enforcing US law on a NZ resident.

I think Frank Bainimarama is a complete totalitarian cunt.

Saying that is against Fiji law. I have clearly broken Fiji law, and my statement can be read from any internet live PC or phone in Fiji. For all I know, Kiwibikers server is in the back of a dairy in Suva. Would that make me more liable ?

Should the police fly to my place and arrest me for it ?

[BoristheBiter]

Well they can't be returned back to the US, as they didn't come from the US.

I accept that you can no longer do what you want on the internet and get away with breaking laws.

Thats why I made the point that if Mr. Dotcom had broken NZ laws then I entirely agree that the FBI could give the information to the NZ police, and they could arrest him.

The issue is, we are enforcing US law on a NZ resident.

I think Frank Bainimarama is a complete totalitarian cunt.

Saying that is against Fiji law. I have clearly broken Fiji law, and my statement can be read from any internet live PC or phone in Fiji. For all I know, Kiwibikers server is in the back of a dairy in Suva. Would that make me more liable ?

Should the police fly to my place and arrest me for it ?

Ok.
He broke a us internet law in the us, regardless of where he might be in the world.
The US found him here and would have asked the NZ government to help in arresting him under the reciprocal agreements that both country's have.

Now for you to call frank a cunt is fine as you have not said it in Fiji so no law has been broken.
If you posted it in Fiji you have broken a law but the Fijian police would have to ask the NZ police to arrest you and then deport you back to Fiji.

The whole internet has opened so many problems it will take years to fix but doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all now does it.

To take it a step further does that mean if i kill some here the fuck off to the states that they can't get me as i have broken no US law?

[Owl]

I'd like to know how many Chinese citizens are being extradited to the US for copyright infringements?

[mashman]

Good KB grammar again.

It was meant as "yes, you do that, like a good conspiracy".

But right again I had been drinking, but not myself. I wouldn't think I would be very tasty, but each to their own.

It was getting late and I really wasn't sure... I'm sure you taste delicious, don't be so hard on yourself.

The whole internet has opened so many problems it will take years to fix but doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all now does it.

killjoy, a free-for-all is exactly what we need

[pzkpfw]

To take it a step further does that mean if i kill some here the fuck off to the states that they can't get me as i have broken no US law?

Yep.

That service station guy who kept the millions Westpac accidentally gave him pissed off back to Hong Kong/China.

They sent him back for us, didn't they?

[BoristheBiter]

Yep.

That service station guy who kept the millions Westpac accidentally gave him pissed off back to Hong Kong/China.

They sent him back for us, didn't they?

Yes but in China they do it their way, where most of the west country's "let them watch" when they arrest someone.

If the FBI was leading this then i would also have some very big questions to ask but it just seems a bit of a beat up.

[avgas]

cause youtube is owned by the big corporate money driven fuckwits

Nice of our police to help out the big American corporates.

On "SOPA day" no less.

Bet they were planning on getting that passed too.......poor little corporates.

[SMOKEU]

If the NZ government is willing to act in such a way that they are prepared to hand someone over to the American authorities for copyright infringement while the "offender" was committing the "crime" on NZ soil, then where does that leave the rest of us? The NZ government is clearly corrupt for even considering such a thing, and I can guarantee that this is the start of much worse things to come.

[SPman]

So are you or not on the dole?

I guess with the $30K tax I paid last year I should take a break and claim it all back, yes?

[BoristheBiter]

If the NZ government is willing to act in such a way that they are prepared to hand someone over to the American authorities for copyright infringement while the "offender" was committing the "crime" on NZ soil, then where does that leave the rest of us? The NZ government is clearly corrupt for even considering such a thing, and I can guarantee that this is the start of much worse things to come.

Then you had better fuck off somewhere else before the man catches up with you then.

[BoristheBiter]

I guess with the $30K tax I paid last year I should take a break and claim it all back, yes?

Sorry then, i'm could have sworn there was a thread where you said you were on it.
O well carry on.

[davereid]

Ok.
He broke a us internet law in the us, regardless of where he might be in the world.
The US found him here and would have asked the NZ government to help in arresting him under the reciprocal agreements that both country's have. Now for you to call frank a cunt is fine as you have not said it in Fiji so no law has been broken.If you posted it in Fiji you have broken a law but the Fijian police would have to ask the NZ police to arrest you and then deport you back to Fiji.The whole internet has opened so many problems it will take years to fix but doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all now does it.To take it a step further does that mean if i kill some here the fuck off to the states that they can't get me as i have broken no US law?

I dont think you can be sure he broke a US law in the US. I can't find anything to suggest he has even been to the US.

You could argue that he broke a US law in New Zealand, but the US has jurisdiction as the server was in the US.

But if that was the case, my comments about Mr Bainamarama would also be enforceable by the Fijians if the server was based in Fiji. And for all I know it is.

Indeed its completely impossible to be sure where any bit of internet traffic is routed, stored or saved, as its dynamic. One packet may go via the US while another goes via germany.

Megaupload had servers all over the world. You could not even be sure that any particular file you sent or received was in any particular country.

Does that mean you have to know where the server is when you do something online ? To do a trace-route to make sure your traffic is not going via a Chinese server if you are being critical of communisim ?

If you were to kill someone in New Zealand, and flee to the US, its entirely different, as you had commited a crime IN New Zealand against NZ laws. So NZ jurisdiction applies.

The age of consent in New Zealand is 16. Its 18 in the United States. So should the US be able to arrange for NZ police to arrest New Zealanders who have sex at 16 ?

Should US police be able to arrest New Zealanders who have sex with 16 year old americans who are in New Zealand on Hoiliday ?

Should the US police be able to arrest americans who have sex with other americans at age 16 in NZ ?

Should Muslims be able to stone women who offend islamic law in New Zealand ?