MotoGP 2012

[merv]

You're onto it crasher, why aren't there more direct injected strokers? Honda tried injection on the NSR500, can't remember if it was direct injection, but why didn't they persist? The direct injection will certainly solve the fuel going straight through to the exhaust like happens to a proportion of it on carburetted strokers. They'd probably still smoke a little bit due to oiling needs of the piston, but hey perhaps there's another way of solving that issue too.

You might laugh about diesels but how many real diesels are already direct injection and two stroke?

[Crasherfromwayback]

You're onto it crasher, why aren't there more direct injected strokers? Honda tried injection on the NSR500, can't remember if it was direct injection, but why didn't they persist? The direct injection will certainly solve the fuel going straight through to the exhaust like happens to a proportion of it on carburetted strokers. They'd probably still smoke a little bit due to oiling needs of the piston, but hey perhaps there's another way of solving that issue too.

You might laugh about diesels but how many real diesels are already direct injection and two stroke?

Thinking they may run a four stroke type bottom end Merv,so may need sweet fa in the way of oil for the piston(s) and rings?

It's reasonably new technology in small two strokes I guess...but I'm sure if the lil factories get it sorted, the big boys will have to follow suit.

Detroit Diesel?

[slowpoke]

I think most sane people agree that costs are out of control? The question has been how best to rein them back in, now that the horse has officially left the barn.

I heard someone talking about Post Classic racing while I was down South and it summed things up in a nutshell for me, even with regards to the GP classes. He was talking about full floating brake rotors in one of the classes/era's and how they should be legal according to when they were available but aren't allowed by the rules. Why not? Because the only person who wins is the rotor manufacturer. One person buys them for a momentary advantage, which forces everyone else to buy them. Soon enough the status quo is restored, with everyone $600 worse off and the manufacturer laughing his box off.

Same applies to even MotoGP. Honda develop pneumatic valve technology at great expense, force everyone else to spend up large to develop the same (unless you are Ducati with their desmodromic system) and the status quo is restored. Who wins out of that? We are never going to see pneumatic actuated valves on road bikes, the racing was no better, so what was the point? You could apply the same to carbon disc rotors or any number of things.

I dunno what the answer is, as things stood last year we were in a downward spiral, CRT hasn't been applied very well, so right now I'm just pretty disillusioned with the whole stuation.

[slowpoke]

I was chatting to a friend of mine that sells Aprillia the other day. He was telling me about the new direct injection two stroke scooter they have. Meets Euro 5, and gets 300km's on the same size tank the previous one got 120km's out of.

Bout time everyone told Honda to stick their diesels up their arse and form a runaway series for injected strokers I say. Cheaper to produce, run and replace. Sorted. Sort of back to the future.

Nice! Trouble is folks like Aprilia have developed traction control for their RSW/RSA 250's, so you're straight back to the present again as far as electronics and rooms full of engineers racking up the $$$. Fuck off most of the electronics/GPS type crap and you're halfway to a decent race series no matter what sort of bikes you run.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuck off most of the electronics/GPS type crap and you're halfway to a decent race series no matter what sort of bikes you run.

We're together there 100%!

[cmoore]

All good and interesting comments, I guess we will all know for sure as the season gets going. The main players/teams all had a say in the new rules and it would be nice to think they all had more passion for the sport then most and only want the best to come of the changes.

[wharfy]

You're onto it crasher, why aren't there more direct injected strokers? Honda tried injection on the NSR500, can't remember if it was direct injection, but why didn't they persist? The direct injection will certainly solve the fuel going straight through to the exhaust like happens to a proportion of it on carburetted strokers. They'd probably still smoke a little bit due to oiling needs of the piston, but hey perhaps there's another way of solving that issue too.

You might laugh about diesels but how many real diesels are already direct injection and two stroke?

Don't know how many now but they have been used in everything from trains,boats and planes to trucks The opposed cylinder configuration I first saw in a Commer truck I thought it was pretty out there .
They were not direct injection though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Op...ton_engine.gif

Kiwi engineer has a crack

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/mo...es-coming-soon

[Reckless]

You're onto it crasher, why aren't there more direct injected strokers? Honda tried injection on the NSR500, can't remember if it was direct injection, but why didn't they persist? The direct injection will certainly solve the fuel going straight through to the exhaust like happens to a proportion of it on carburetted strokers. They'd probably still smoke a little bit due to oiling needs of the piston, but hey perhaps there's another way of solving that issue too.

You might laugh about diesels but how many real diesels are already direct injection and two stroke?

Oh merv us smoker boys that ride dirt have been waiting for direct injection for the last few years mate
As I understand it the very high pressure pump and generating the power required to run it are a problem. The only ones developing 2 strokes are KTM and rumor has it they have a direct injection bike. But they simply dont need to market it yet as explained under.

IMHO the main reason why smokers where not developed was marketing and money. The clean green thing was an excuse. A smoker can with 1/2 the cc's, do anything a four stroke can if its ported, weighted and fueled correctly. But one thing a smoker cant do is need a mechanic for recons, valves, timing chains and tuning etc.
Four strokes make a lot more sense for the whole distributor chain from the factory selling more parts to the shop getting more recons. So from boss to boy it simply makes much more commercial sense to go 4 than 2. Ive seen a dyno chart in the net of a direct injected 250 vs a 450 4 stroke. The 250 developed the same linear power of the four stroke but with a little more horsepower. But of coarse that would mean we could do our own pistons again and they wouldn't sell as many valves, timing chains and labour charge out.

There is no doubt four strokes deliver their power better and therefore are faster on the mx track but there is also no doubt in my mind that if they had put the same energy into the 2 strokes over the last few years it could do better for less cc's.

Anyway I digress back on topic rant over

[RobGassit]

Oh merv us smoker boys that ride dirt have been waiting for direct injection for the last few years mate
As I understand it the very high pressure pump and generating the power required to run it are a problem. The only ones developing 2 strokes are KTM and rumor has it they have a direct injection bike. But they simply dont need to market it yet as explained under.

IMHO the main reason why smokers where not developed was marketing and money. The clean green thing was an excuse. A smoker can with 1/2 the cc's, do anything a four stroke can if its ported, weighted and fueled correctly. But one thing a smoker cant do is need a mechanic for recons, valves, timing chains and tuning etc.
Four strokes make a lot more sense for the whole distributor chain from the factory selling more parts to the shop getting more recons. So from boss to boy it simply makes much more commercial sense to go 4 than 2. Ive seen a dyno chart in the net of a direct injected 250 vs a 450 4 stroke. The 250 developed the same linear power of the four stroke but with a little more horsepower. But of coarse that would mean we could do our own pistons again and they wouldn't sell as many valves, timing chains and labour charge out.

There is no doubt four strokes deliver their power better and therefore are faster on the mx track but there is also no doubt in my mind that if they had put the same energy into the 2 strokes over the last few years it could do better for less cc's.

Anyway I digress back on topic rant over

Bloody Bastards. So we have to use these heavy diesel shitboxes coz it sells more parts. I'll always own a smoker. They just make so much sense when you pin that throttle. The green party can kiss my ass.

[DidJit]

Here's some bait for you, Crasherfromwayback. Not too shabby considering track temperature was apparently 7°C colder and RdP set the same time November last year in temperatures around 15–20°C. The new modified Aprilia chassis (and probably the 2012 Bridgestones) must be an improvement.

And from Sepang, some MotoPorn... Suter seem to have made some fairly big changes to their CRT swingarm. Tech3's M1 looks grouse clad in bare carbon fibre fairings.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Here's some bait for you, Crasherfromwayback. .

I was pissed off RDP didn't get a Honda this year, as I reckon he would've gone sick! Best you wait till the test in Sepang to see how they all stack up before getting too excited 'bout your CRT bikes though...

[yod]

I was pissed off RDP didn't get a Honda this year, as I reckon he would've gone sick! Best you wait till the test in Sepang to see how they all stack up before getting too excited 'bout your CRT bikes though...

Testing must start in the next few hours? this new Duc could be interesting, could be an epic fail too....

[Crasherfromwayback]

Testing must start in the next few hours? this new Duc could be interesting, could be an epic fail too....

Probably putting the tyre warmers on about now!

This looks horn... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image...ve/2012rc213v/

While this looks...well...pretty rough... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/showPic early days I know.

[nudemetalz]

Nice! Trouble is folks like Aprilia have developed traction control for their RSW/RSA 250's, so you're straight back to the present again as far as electronics and rooms full of engineers racking up the $$$. Fuck off most of the electronics/GPS type crap and you're halfway to a decent race series no matter what sort of bikes you run.

You mean like when Lorenzo forgot to turn on his traction control that time and arsed off his 800. Throttle control? What's throttle control?
When the telemetry comes on they're basically full throttle while still cranked over.....
I don't recall the YZR, NSR and RGV500's having traction control.......

(I await the thrown beer cans at me...)

[boostin]

While this looks...well...pretty rough... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/showPic early days I know.

I assume you mean this one? http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jan/120130d17.htm

Does look pretty rough but as the article states "And a chassis doesn't need to reflect in order to work well."

Hope it goes better than it looks!