Why it's important not to have other road users lift their game

[Clockwork]

Thank you, as part of the 5% you help me keep my game up.

You don't have to worry about me mate, I like to use my head as well as my eyes when driving.

Funny how many of us seem happy to ignore arbitrary speed limits. but assume Stop signs must always be obeyed even when you can see that there is no reason to stop.

IMO Stop signs exist to alert drivers that they simply can't navigate the intersection without stopping because their view of it is obstructed. Any other purpose is an abuse.

If Stopping makes every intersection safer why not do away with Give Way intersections altogether?

Accidents at intersections occur when drivers dont look, stopped or otherwise!

[davereid]

I nearly missed the car that had stopped at the compulsory stop then pulled out in front of me.

Ahh yes the safety lady pointed out my "near miss register" at the workshop had no entries.

I said thats because they are all in the other book. The accident register.

Funny that.

[shrub]

You don't have to worry about me mate, I like to use my head as well as my eyes when driving.

Can you trust your eyes 100% all the time? I can't and I don't.

Funny how many of us seem happy to ignore arbitrary speed limits. but assume Stop signs must always be obeyed even when you can see that there is no reason to stop.

IMO Stop signs exist to alert drivers that they simply can't navigate the intersection without stopping because their view of it is obstructed. Any other purpose is an abuse.

I think you'll find that pretty well every stop sign is a stop sign because there is a risk, and while I am sure there are a few that could probably be give way signs, do you know which ones they are? In essence you admit that you come up to a stop sign, have a quick look, decide there is nothing coming, and go. What if there is a tree or building that blocks a small portion of your visibility - so small you miss it, but still big enough to hide me on my bike? And when do you decide when a stop sign is necessary and when it is an "abuse of power"?

But the part that worries me is your attitude. You used the words "an act of rebellion" to describe the motivation behind your driving decisions, and people who treat driving as an act of rebellion are dangerous to every one else. You say you are rebelling against "petty minded bureaucrats", and while I find them as irritating as anyone, driving dangerously has ZERO impact on them, yet places other road users in danger. If you really want to change the world there are better ways.

[Swoop]

My rationale behind this is that 95% of road users are pretty good overall,

I know that there are 5% of the people on the road who drive like retards and don't stop at red lights, tail gate, don't look, don't indicate, get pissed etc.

Evidence for those statistics?
As for Auckland, you could reverse those estimates, easily.

Driving skills in this country are low. If the purported "1st World Status" of the country is to be believed, our individual driving skills should be much higher.

[shrub]

Evidence for those statistics?
As for Auckland, you could reverse those estimates, easily.

Driving skills in this country are low. If the purported "1st World Status" of the country is to be believed, our individual driving skills should be much higher.

No evidence, most people are perfectly competent and safe most of the time. The actually numbers have no bearing on the argument that the fact that some other road users are idiots works in our favour if we take the position that our safety is completely our responsibility.

[chasio]

Can you trust your eyes 100% all the time? I can't and I don't.

I think you'll find that pretty well every stop sign is a stop sign because there is a risk, and while I am sure there are a few that could probably be give way signs, do you know which ones they are? In essence you admit that you come up to a stop sign, have a quick look, decide there is nothing coming, and go. What if there is a tree or building that blocks a small portion of your visibility - so small you miss it, but still big enough to hide me on my bike? And when do you decide when a stop sign is necessary and when it is an "abuse of power"?

But the part that worries me is your attitude. You used the words "an act of rebellion" to describe the motivation behind your driving decisions, and people who treat driving as an act of rebellion are dangerous to every one else. You say you are rebelling against "petty minded bureaucrats", and while I find them as irritating as anyone, driving dangerously has ZERO impact on them, yet places other road users in danger. If you really want to change the world there are better ways.

Well said.

And another thing... Mashman posted this up in another thread and it has really made me think about blind spots some more: blind spot stuff

I followed the links and mapped my blindspot and was pretty amazed at how large a chunk of my vision was actually being invented by my brain filling in the blanks based on surrounding information.

Besides, practising static balance at a Stop sign is a good skill drill (as a second activity to actually looking, of course).

[Tink]

As I spend the majority of my working day on a motorbike, 4-6 hours a day, WE are trained with the 12 sec rule, eyes and ears constantly looking ahead for the unexpected, my trainer said if I was in a accident, it would be my fault regardless, because I should have expected it. This theory sounded weird to me, but after being on the bike now since beginning of November, he is right, any incident that could have occurred would have been my fault, (in the eyes of the law possibly not)..... believe me it works, so I have to agree with Shrub in the sense of EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED at all times.

[Clockwork]

Can you trust your eyes 100% all the time? I can't and I don't. So far, so good. Past close calls (and I suspect this is true for many drivers) have been where a vehicle approaching from the left has been hidden behind the door pillar. Not a problem on the bike, but every bit as much a problem for any car at every give way intersection. On that basis, lets make all right turns compulsory stops.


I think you'll find that pretty well every stop sign is a stop sign because there is a risk, and while I am sure there are a few that could probably be give way signs, do you know which ones they are? In essence you admit that you come up to a stop sign, have a quick look, decide there is nothing coming, and go. What if there is a tree or building that blocks a small portion of your visibility - so small you miss it, but still big enough to hide me on my bike? And when do you decide when a stop sign is necessary and when it is an "abuse of power"?

When I can see the intersection clearly in both directions as I approach it.

But the part that worries me is your attitude. You used the words "an act of rebellion" to describe the motivation behind your driving decisions, and people who treat driving as an act of rebellion are dangerous to every one else. You say you are rebelling against "petty minded bureaucrats", and while I find them as irritating as anyone, driving dangerously has ZERO impact on them, yet places other road users in danger. If you really want to change the world there are better ways.

What sanctimonious crap. Why can't you accept that there are intersections where there is no reason to stop when you can see that there is no one to give way to, why can't you accept that if I choose to drive through such an intersection when the way is clear, that I'm endangering no one.

I've given up trying to change world, too many people such as demonstrated by yourself here are unwilling to challenge and just accept the absurdity of some of the petty rules that govern our lives. I suggest that if you really think what I am doing is so dangerous you personally should never drive through any intersection without stopping as it appears you are unwilling or unable to trust your eyes or your ability to make rational decisions for yourself and consider everyone else equally incapable.

Personally, I think the authorities silly abuse of Stop signs will prove far more dangerous in the long run.

[shrub]

What sanctimonious crap. Why can't you accept that there are intersections where there is no reason to stop when you can see that there is no one to give way to, why can't you accept that if I choose to drive through such an intersection when the way is clear, that I'm endangering no one..

What is "petty" about requiring people to stop at compulsory stop signs? And why don't you stop? Too much of a hurry, or just too lazy? I nearly got taken out last night by someone working for a company called Probuild Construction because they felt that they didn't need to stop when the light turned red. They probably felt completely justified in their decision in the same way you feel justified.

I've given up trying to change world, too many people such as demonstrated by yourself here are unwilling to challenge or accept the absurdity of some of the petty rules that govern our lives. I suggest that if you really think what I am doing is so dangerous you personally should never drive through any intersection without stopping as it appears you are unwilling or unable to trust your eyes or your ability to make rational decisions for yourself and consider everyone else equally incapable

So instead of doing something constructive that will actually make a difference, you just ignore the rules when it suits you? And I don't consider everyone else incapable of driving safely, just people like you.

[Swoop]

most people are perfectly competent and safe most of the time.

That is a position that will get anyone into danger. Presume that everyone else is mentally retarded when in control of a motor vehicle and act accordingly.

our safety is completely our responsibility.

How did katman get your login?

[shrub]

That is a position that will get anyone into danger. Presume that everyone else is mentally retarded when in control of a motor vehicle and act accordingly.

Yeah, but I prefer sleepy and distracted. If they're mentally retarded you can't reason with them and they do random and stupid shit, whereas confused and distracted people just do dumb shit that can often be predicted. For example, a loony will just turn in front of you because Jesus told them to and you have no idea when that will be. On the other hand a sleepy and distracted person usually has a reason to do that U turn like turning into a driveway, they thought that the gap in cars where you were was a break in the traffic etc, and if you know what to look for there are usually warning signs. A loony doesn't care what happens to you (or them), whereas a sleepy person doesn't want to kill or maim anyone else, and especially doesn't want to get into trouble with the Cunstables and pay a hefty fine. That means if they know you're there and know that turning will fuck things up for everyone including them, they won't do it, no matter how much Jesus says please.

How did katman get your login?

Nah, but he makes a lot of sense. Most of the time. Ugly bike though.

[Clockwork]

What is "petty" about requiring people to stop at compulsory stop signs? And why don't you stop? Too much of a hurry, or just too lazy? I nearly got taken out last night by someone working for a company called Probuild Construction because they felt that they didn't need to stop when the light turned red. They probably felt completely justified in their decision in the same way you feel justified.



So instead of doing something constructive that will actually make a difference, you just ignore the rules when it suits you? And I don't consider everyone else incapable of driving safely, just people like you.

Sorry, maybe I haven't made myself clear. Because I said I could see no good reason for coming to a complete stop at every intersection marked as such does not mean that I blast through them with gay abandon as you seem to assume. I approach EVERY intersection the same way regardless of their markings, depending on my need to turn left or right. In nearly every case when turning right I will need to slow down to almost a standstill in order to ascertain if it is safe to proceed. Note though that I often don't need to come to a complete standstill in order to do this and as such ...... I do... I really do resent pedants such as yourself and possibly officer Scumdog, pinging me simply because I didn't stop when I bloody well didn't need to because the intersection never needed to be a compulsory stop by the first place.

'Tis a sad day for me.... I alway thought you were one of the more intelligent posters on this site, I even agree wholeheartedly with your initial post on this thread but apparently you too have subjects upon which your mind is closed.

[SMOKEU]

my trainer said if I was in a accident, it would be my fault regardless, because I should have expected it.

So then it's your fault if some drunk idiot drives through a red light at 100kmh and wipes you out as you're riding through a green light at 50kmh. Contrary to what Katman will tell you, not all SMIDSY's are the fault of the rider.

[Ocean1]

Maybe 50% are below average.

That's just mean.

You are on to something though.

You are totally in charge of only one persons driving/riding.......your own.

You can't change everyone else, you can only change yourself. Do what you can to be as good as you can. Expect that nobody else is going to improve, as that will increase your defensiveness, and decrease your reliability on their improvement.

Use the force (your own), and all will be well.

Absolutley correct, very good.

Now stop trying to change everyone else.

That's the key. We are solely responsible for making it to the stage where we're too old and decrepit to ride a bike...

I aced that stage ages ago. Still riding.

Guess that makes me one of dem 10%, eh?

[Katman]

Contrary to what Katman will tell you, not all SMIDSY's are the fault of the rider.

There you go again - getting hung up on that word 'fault'.