Does ecilop radar have to have speed locked to issue ticket?

[RDJ]

How to identify camellias...

Sorry, that one is out of my range! But there is a website for that says my wife...

[Madness]

It must be a bastard to be an innocent person accused...

Yeah, it's not much fun.

[KX500]

yeah ya got the averages in check

I doubt i was recorded cause had just moved in front of ute and i was at 6 oclock and cops at 4 to 5 , whats the sweep of the the radar beam ? xr650r good thump when throttled tweaked, high vis orange vest, high beam headlight - here he comes - look like ya going faster than ya are with drippy plumber ute crawling along.

Its really the whole point - no one actually knows how fast I was going - if there was proof fair cop the average kiwi would say.

[cs363]

no one actually knows how fast I was going

Well you obviously do as you've admitted you were speeding several times in this thread.........

[KX500]

Last post was braked incase I was speeding, Quote where I said I was speeding sherlock ?

[chasio]

xr650r

Cool, glad that is cleared up.

I did read the thread and I'd be willing to bet that Joe Public lies in court more often than the police do, personally. And neither excuses the other.

So in terms of your ethics, where do you stand on the issue of someone lying in court to get off something they know they did? Or lying to a Police Office when they are stopped?

[rastuscat]

Cool, glad that is cleared up.

I did read the thread and I'd be willing to bet that Joe Public lies in court more often than the police do, personally. And neither excuses the other.

So in terms of your ethics, where do you stand on the issue of someone lying in court to get off something they know they did? Or lying to a Police Office when they are stopped?

A liar in a uniform is still a liar.

I get told shit every day I'm at work. Mostly by the public, but sometimes by the people I work with.

The cellphone thing is probably the porky du jour. I see folk with a cellphone glued to their ear, but its soooooooo easy to dump it on the empty seat next door and deny having used it.

Locked a bloke up once, I saw him using a silver flip phone. He adamantly denied it when stopped, claiming to have a Blackberry, and not owning a silver flip. He then drove off without giving his name and address etc, so was subsequently locked up. Back at the cells, we found a silver flip phone in his pocket. Imagine that.

Remember tho, that most people tell the truth, even if it's only the truth as they know it to be. It might be wrong, but it's the truth. That's not lying, either from a Popo or a punter.

Mrs Cat not well, off to my bed to console her.........

[cs363]

they said was going considerably faster than I was (11 miles an hour of earth shattering stuff) Most speed down gasson - why ? Cause up until now there is "never" any cops on gasson. Pretty common is it not for people to speed down roads and streets that they know cops hardly ever sit on ?

I blimpt the throttle to pass the plumber ute with a canopy who was doing about 40 prob cause seen the cop and was fanging it prior, then I spotted the cop and braked case I was going over speed limit.

xr650r good thump when throttled tweaked.

You may not have directly said you were speeding, but first quote above implies it, second post says you 'blimpt' the throttle to pass the ute that was doing 'about 40' - not hard for an XR650 to be doing over 60km/h in this situation, plus braking is implicit of guilt.
3rd post above also implies you gave it a handful.

I think you are painting exactly the profile that rastuscat was talking about earlier 'The punter, however, has obvious motivation to tell a story of innocence.'
To me it sounds like you just caught out doing exactly what many of us all do, and on a street where you say speeding is common as everybody does it because there's never any cops down there -it's just bad luck. Police ethics have nothing to do with it, in this instance anyway.

From memory I think that Police can even issue a ticket based on observed speed or something similar (rastuscat or scumdog might be able to clear that up) if you are travelling noticably faster than other traffic around you. Something along those lines anyway.

So anyway, are you going to fight the ticket?

[KX500]

Cool, glad that is cleared up.

I did read the thread and I'd be willing to bet that Joe Public lies in court more often than the police do, personally. And neither excuses the other.

So in terms of your ethics, where do you stand on the issue of someone lying in court to get off something they know they did? Or lying to a Police Office when they are stopped?

Its BS - literally to lie for any reason.

Don't ya have to lead from the top ? How can you expect all road users to play fair if the system is not seen to be fair, countless people in here think its BS to have to take the officers word on it.
If the system is not respected why respect it ?

We all have to be on the same team, carn't be all about revenue collecting when you have cops in here good enough to tell you where the hotspots are where they target - inturn many will think about why they are in the particular spots.

Its the system, more money needs to be pumped in for as discussed video/photo evidence.

[chasio]

Its BS - literally to lie for any reason.

Don't ya have to lead from the top ? How can you expect all road users to play fair if the system is not seen to be fair, countless people in here think its BS to have to take the officers word on it.
If the system is not respected why respect it ?

We all have to be on the same team, carn't be all about revenue collecting when you have cops in here good enough to tell you where the hotspots are where they target - inturn many will think about why they are in the particular spots.

Its the system, more money needs to be pumped in for as discussed video/photo evidence.

I'm 100% with you there.

[KX500]

cs363 they said 11 miles an hour, a tweak and a handful two different throttle positons, one slowly increases acceleration and one produces a mono. Braking not automatic guilt , you never braked when seen a cop only to look down and you were'nt speeding after all ?


rastuscat philosophy to me in this instance would mean one would have to have very low self esteem to feel like an outcast in society cause you have a speeding fine for an Alledged 67 km/hr.

Being person of principle always served others and me well so to right I'll be fighting it and very suprised not to get off when its "Hear Say".

[cs363]

cs363 they said 11 miles an hour, a tweak and a handful two different throttle positons, one slowly increases acceleration and one produces a mono. Braking not automatic guilt , you never braked when seen a cop only to look down and you were'nt speeding after all ?

Can't say I've ever braked when I've seen a cop, unless I was actually speeding - being aware of ones speed is part of being a responsible road user, whether you're speeding or not, surely?
If you brake whenever you see a cop that would suggest you speed a lot, at least that's what I imagine a cop or a judge would take from that - much like people that run from the cops when they 'haven't done anything' - you only have to watch any of the multitude of police reality programmes on TV to know that's BS.
In fact braking would tend to draw attention to oneself I would imagine, most cops barely glance at you if you go past them a few km'h over (except on the stupid 4km/h tolerance weekends, and even then a lot don't seem to bother), after all part of the cops training is to be alert for people acting suspiciously.

rastuscat philosophy to me in this instance would mean one would have to have very low self esteem to feel like an outcast in society cause you have a speeding fine for an Alledged 67 km/hr.

Being person of principle always served others and me well so to right I'll be fighting it and very suprised not to get off when its "Hear Say".

I'm not saying I agree with the speed limits in a lot of places in NZ, my personal belief is that in many places they are artificially low and in the odd place too high - BUT the reality is that the speed limit is the law, you break them and you pay the price, if you happen to do it in the vicinity of a cop.

I agree with you regarding your post about better video or photo evidence to remove all doubt in cases like yours, that would certainly be a positive step IMO.

[Jantar]

...If you brake whenever you see a cop that would suggest you speed a lot, at least that's what I imagine a cop or a judge would take from that - .....

I do sometimes exceed the speed limit, but most times I try to stay at or very close to it. Every time I see a cop I brake first then check my speed. If my radar detector goes off I brake then look to see what speed the radar detector locked on to. (it has a built in GPS as well)

I also have my Garmin GPS set to record "often". That is every change of direction of more than 2 degrees and every change of speed of more than 3% or every 10 seconds whichever comes first. It seldom reaches 10 seconds between records, and is often less than 1 second.

I just loved the expression on the face of the cop who stopped me and claimed I was doing 116 kmh when I knew I was under 100 kmh. When I asked him to record on his own notes that my bike was fitted with a recording GPS, and to note the GPS time as displayed and the GPS co-ordinates shown, as I would be defending the ticket in court. He didn't write a ticket, but just got in his car and drove away. I realised later that I should have photograhed the police car and sent in a complaint.

[cs363]

I just loved the expression on the face of the cop who stopped me and claimed I was doing 116 kmh when I knew I was under 100 kmh. When I asked him to record on his own notes that my bike was fitted with a recording GPS, and to note the GPS time as displayed and the GPS co-ordinates shown, as I would be defending the ticket in court. He didn't write a ticket, but just got in his car and drove away. I realised later that I should have photograhed the police car and sent in a complaint.

Now that would have been funny! Unfortunately there are a few 'bad apples' in the Police as with any large organisation, I know of a particular cop based in a small town in central NI that strong anecdotal evidence would strongly suggest has a habit of pinging people with a speed showing on his radar unit 15+ Km/h higher than their actual speed, probably locked on from an earlier 'customer'. His reaction and threatening manner when this has been suggested to him (by more than one person) would tend to support this theory.
Thankfully the majority of cops seem to just be normal guys doing a job that is often thankless, I know I wouldn't want to deal with some of the shit that they have to.

Just to clarify on the braking comment, not necessarily saying that if you brake when seeing a cop you must be speeding, but rather it portrays the impression that you are, whether or not you are actually be speeding.

[davereid]

Remember to read the words highlighted.

The journo further shows her lack of understanding by saying that the officer has to produce the reading in court. Tripe. How do you produce a reading that appeared on a radar display several months earlier?

Good word, quote cases that have no legal weight, given they arose from a District Court hearing.

Grrrrrrrrr

I did find the original post, as well as Jantars comments about the High court precedent. Someone may have access to Brookers and may be able to find the original High Court precedent.

Its not correct to say District Court judgements have no legal weight.

They are not considered to be precedent, but they are consider to be influential. That is to say if the district court is unsure of which way to jump, they may use the other district courts decisions as a benchmark.

I'm also very nervous when I hear of police issuing tickets when there are multiple vehicles in the radar beam, and especially nervous when "fastest target" type locking is concerned.

There are a wide range of technical reasons why doppler radar is very unsuitable for use when there are multiple vehicles in the beam.

(1) Doppler radar cannot identify its target
(2) Doppler radar does not know distance to target
(3) Doppler radar "mixes" its transmitted output with the received input (reflection) from the target, and produces ALL the sum, and difference frequencies between its output and its input(s).

Lets look at an imaginary but mathematically correct example.

assumptions for the purpose of demonstration set to use simple arithmetic...

output frequency of radar = 100 demohertz
each km/hr of target vehicle speed towards the radar INCREASES the reflected signal frequency by 1 demohertz

3 vehicles in beam. While they are all at different distances, the size of the reflected signal is essentially the same as they are different sizes and have different radar cross sectional areas.

1 at 103 km/hr - small motorcycle
1 at 105 km/hr - car
1 at 112 km/hr - large truck

Mixer output comprises main signals of

3
5
12 demohertz

as well as minor signals of
5-3 = 2
12-3 = 9
12-5 = 7 demohertz

so the part of the radar unit that determines speed is being fed 2,3,7,9,and 12 demohertz.

The manufacturer uses sophisticated digital techniques to try and determine which signals are valid and should be displayed as strongest signal and fastest signal.

But, ALL the above frequencies (plus and caused by multipath reflections) will all get processed.

The laws of physics mean no one, not even the computer in the radar unit can associate any of those signals 100% accurately with a given target.