Feedback from round 4 NZSBK

[Billy]

That sounds like a good option Billy, I think the hardest thing about the sound rule is that as hard as you might try to get your sound down on your bike there is no way we can test it for all conditions and its a pretty harsh penalty for over 98db with an instant black flag.

A static test at scruitineering would be great so you could rest assured you wont be black flagged for noise unless something dramatically changes on your bike but are there any rules in the rule book that cover a static noise limit?

The worry for me is that my bike from factory is 103db its written on the frame. I realise this is a different test but that to me says that my bike has the 'potential' to be over the 96db test even with the standard exhaust

I should make it clear right now,A static test this weekend,Will not guarantee anything,What I am trying to achieve is to give those with concerns some sort of an idea,How close to the limit they are and whether they need to maybe look at doing something about it,Rather than just being informed they have a problem out of nowhere.

I am going to try to have our static test as close to the one they use for the ADR compliance as is practical,I think you will find for our market they need to be 88DB or less to comply,Hence the Fireblade that was only 84db on the weekend.No there are no rules surrounding a static test as yet.

The 95db limit is the same at all tracks around the country and in some cases is enforced strictly as was the case at Levels this year where they had to turn off the speakers at some of the commentary points,Where the councils enforce the noise limit there is no room for negotiation.

[cahoots]

A well organised and smooth running weekend. Excellent work on prompt recovery of crashed and broken bikes. As usual a lot of hard work put in behind the scenes to make it happen and thanks to the volunteers and flag marshalls who put in the hours. AMCC office staff are always pleasant to deal with and go out of their way to help.
Cons: The negative tone set at riders' briefing where a "them and us" scene was set between a couple of AMCC officials and the riders.
Being new to road racing (but experienced in sports coaching and administration) it was frustrating and embarrassing for me as I had talked a couple of ART enthusiasts into trying racing. They've subsequently told me they won't be rejoining AMCC. I reassured them that 95% of the AMCC crew were great people. Unfortunately the talking heads at the briefing were the other 5%.
Rules are necessary, especially when safety is concerned, but they are only guidlines and always up for change.

Racers have anti-authority genes in their DNA. Humour and good natured discussion usually get the job done.
As to the noise meter. Tough to get an accurate reading with the Meremere drags belting out down the road.

[Biggles08]

I should make it clear right now,A static test this weekend,Will not guarantee anything,What I am trying to achieve is to give those with concerns some sort of an idea,How close to the limit they are and whether they need to maybe look at doing something about it,Rather than just being informed they have a problem out of nowhere.

I am going to try to have our static test as close to the one they use for the ADR compliance as is practical,I think you will find for our market they need to be 88DB or less to comply,Hence the Fireblade that was only 84db on the weekend.No there are no rules surrounding a static test as yet.

The 95db limit is the same at all tracks around the country and in some cases is enforced strictly as was the case at Levels this year where they had to turn off the speakers at some of the commentary points,Where the councils enforce the noise limit there is no room for negotiation.

As a suggestion Billy, would it not be a good idea for MNZ to attempt to rectify this ridiculously low level of 95Db with the councils in form of a exemption prior to the events? Not sure on the logistics of this or indeed if at all posible but it seems strange that the drags just down from Hampton Downs would be putting out 120Db plus with jet cars etc screaming down the strip and they get away with it. Furthermore, the Formula 5000's were reading 110Db at hampton Downs a few weeks earlier supposidly but had no issue (that was hearsay and not confirmed in any way - but it seems likely as they are loud). I realize at places like Pukekohe the likelyhood of this being accepted would be slim due to the close residents, however places like Hampton Downs and Taupo should be possible don't you think?

Like Choppa said, seems strange that the BMW can get a WOF for the road at 103Db but needs to be quieter to be a race bike?!

[Billy]

As a suggestion Billy, would it not be a good idea for MNZ to attempt to rectify this ridiculously low level of 95Db with the councils in form of a exemption prior to the events? Not sure on the logistics of this or indeed if at all posible but it seems strange that the drags just down from Hampton Downs would be putting out 120Db plus with jet cars etc screaming down the strip and they get away with it. Furthermore, the Formula 5000's were reading 110Db at hampton Downs a few weeks earlier supposidly but had no issue (that was hearsay and not confirmed in any way - but it seems likely as they are loud). I realize at places like Pukekohe the likelyhood of this being accepted would be slim due to the close residents, however places like Hampton Downs and Taupo should be possible don't you think?

Like Choppa said, seems strange that the BMW can get a WOF for the road at 103Db but needs to be quieter to be a race bike?!

Yea,I'm not going to get into the specifics of what MNZ should or shouldnt do or any of the reasonings behind the decisions online,But if you care to contact me directly through the appropriate channels I will be only to happy to discuss it further with you.


What I am trying to do is alleviate the situation,A decision I came to after a brief chat with you on Sunday afternoon,Where you expressed your disappointment at not having any warning,Thats fair comment and I am trying to rectify that situation,Changing local governments mind is a whole different kettle of fish.

Re the decibel limit for Land transport,I think you will find as I stated above,Its 88db for certification in NZ

[codgyoleracer]

Yea,I'm not going to get into the specifics of what MNZ should or shouldnt do or any of the reasonings behind the decisions online,But if you care to contact me directly through the appropriate channels I will be only to happy to discuss it further with you.


What I am trying to do is alleviate the situation,A decision I came to after a brief chat with you on Sunday afternoon,Where you expressed your disappointment at not having any warning,Thats fair comment and I am trying to rectify that situation,Changing local governments mind is a whole different kettle of fish.

Re the decibel limit for Land transport,I think you will find as I stated above,Its 88db for certification in NZ

Yip, a number of bikes are released with performance pipe upgrades " for track use only" , these float around the 102/104 db typically. So the manufacturer is fully aware that these thing dont comply for road -use, and cover their arse / liabilty with the track use statement.
Of course the track use statement has no authority over the local rules from the governing racing body (in this case MNZ)

[malcy25]

As a suggestion Billy, would it not be a good idea for MNZ to attempt to rectify this ridiculously low level of 95Db with the councils in form of a exemption prior to the events? Not sure on the logistics of this or indeed if at all posible but it seems strange that the drags just down from Hampton Downs would be putting out 120Db plus with jet cars etc screaming down the strip and they get away with it. Furthermore, the Formula 5000's were reading 110Db at hampton Downs a few weeks earlier supposidly but had no issue (that was hearsay and not confirmed in any way - but it seems likely as they are loud). I realize at places like Pukekohe the likelyhood of this being accepted would be slim due to the close residents, however places like Hampton Downs and Taupo should be possible don't you think?

Like Choppa said, seems strange that the BMW can get a WOF for the road at 103Db but needs to be quieter to be a race bike?!

Biggles. I was at HD when the F5000 cars were running on the 1st saturday. I was on the exit to barrel 51 with camera and video camera. I had to move after about 8 laps or so so as I was becoming physically disoriented / ill from the noise. First time ever had that. Not saying I didn't think the sound was outstanding, mind you, just very voluminous...

As alluded to the above 103 will probably be static at 1.5m away, 45 degree angle from exh exit or some such measurement. Our's being 95db at 30 (or 35 can't remember right now) metres in a ride by. Bit like comparing miles an hour to km per hour unfortunately.

I think the long term reality is that it will get tighter, not easier with regards to noise and we are all in the same boat.

My own personal view is that given we generally all ride at multiple circuits a consistent required level is the easiest to deal with, rather tahn two different set ups etc.

Got a bit of thread drift going on here and I see that Codgy has started a new noise thread, so should probably keep going on this over there and leave this for Rd 4 Feedback. Talk more there everyone I guess!

[CHOPPA]

Yip, a number of bikes are released with performance pipe upgrades " for track use only" , these float around the 102/104 db typically. So the manufacturer is fully aware that these thing dont comply for road -use, and cover their arse / liabilty with the track use statement.
Of course the track use statement has no authority over the local rules from the governing racing body (in this case MNZ)

The S1000RR is rated at 103 db with standard pipe

[Biggles08]

Yea,I'm not going to get into the specifics of what MNZ should or shouldnt do or any of the reasonings behind the decisions online,But if you care to contact me directly through the appropriate channels I will be only to happy to discuss it further with you.

Fair enough

What I am trying to do is alleviate the situation,A decision I came to after a brief chat with you on Sunday afternoon,Where you expressed your disappointment at not having any warning,Thats fair comment and I am trying to rectify that situation,Changing local governments mind is a whole different kettle of fish.

Fair enough again...but changing the minds of local govt can't be that difficult if other motorsport disciplines manage it. Anyway...we shall move this to another thread.

[Deano]

Fair enough



Fair enough again...but changing the minds of local govt can't be that difficult if other motorsport disciplines manage it. Anyway...we shall move this to another thread.

Marcus, do you know that the cars were being monitored by the event organisor at the time and were complying? You and choppa are throwing decibel numbers out there and putting up an argument where you are seemingly making a hell of a lot of assumptions and possibly (probably) throwing up a smokescreen to the real issues at hand. You need to do some research, check all the facts and go from there, not confound things on kb with speculation and sidetracking.

[CHOPPA]

Marcus, do you know that the cars were being monitored by the event organisor at the time and were complying? You and choppa are throwing decibel numbers out there and putting up an argument where you are seemingly making a hell of a lot of assumptions and possibly (probably) throwing up a smokescreen to the real issues at hand. You need to do some research, check all the facts and go from there, not confound things on kb with speculation and sidetracking.

I have made no assumptions

[Biggles08]

Marcus, do you know that the cars were being monitored by the event organisor at the time and were complying? You and choppa are throwing decibel numbers out there and putting up an argument where you are seemingly making a hell of a lot of assumptions and possibly (probably) throwing up a smokescreen to the real issues at hand. You need to do some research, check all the facts and go from there, not confound things on kb with speculation and sidetracking.

No I don't, and the numbers quoted are (as I have said in a previous post) 'hearsay' and I was not there. Although Malcy25 was there apparently (at the Formula 5000's) and he said they were ear bleeding loud at the barrel 51 corner which also backs up the supposed 110Db. Anyway, the numbers are not really the point I was trying to make, you cannot deny the drags down the road are most definately over 95Db...so how do they run an event such as this on a regular basis? Do they have a higher threshold or are they merely 'getting away with it?' It is a serious question and I'm not trying to be a smart arse (this time anyway).

Re the Db numbers, I am questioning whether the numbers actually stack up as a true reflection of what is occuring at the time of the reading. Basically, you have answered this by explaining any reading one day could be up to 6Db different if recorded by someone else the next day (taking into account the margin of error). This is the issue here, how can we get an accurate reading that everyone can rely on...so much so that they can confidently black flag the noisy bikes. I don't have a problem having rules of maximum alowwable Db's but if the bikes are going to get penelized by being black flagged then the Db number that was taken to black flag the bike need to stack up easily in the case of an appeal. I don't believe the current situation we have now would. That needs to change don't you think?

[malcy25]

No I don't, and the numbers quoted are (as I have said in a previous post) 'hearsay' and I was not there. Although Malcy25 was there apparently (at the Formula 5000's) and he said they were ear bleeding loud at the barrel 51 corner which also backs up the supposed 110Db.

I didn't say ear bleeding, I said it disorientating / making me ill after a while. Note also I was standing right by the fence as close as I could, not 30 metres away, and at my own choice. Interestingly, 20 metres away was quiet normal conversation / not obnoxious.

[Biggles08]

I didn't say ear bleeding, I said it disorientating / making me ill after a while. Note also I was standing right by the fence as close as I could, not 30 metres away, and at my own choice. Interestingly, 20 metres away was quiet normal conversation / not obnoxious.

Well they were loud too is the point...most likely louder than most of the Superbikes...according to most reports.

[Str8 Jacket]

Well they were loud too is the point...most likely louder than most of the Superbikes...according to most reports.

I think that you will find that they don't race at MNZ sanctioned races, which really is what the point is. This issues needs to be raised with MNZ (which I think it has) and reviewed from there.

[Biggles08]

I think that you will find that they don't race at MNZ sanctioned races, which really is what the point is. This issues needs to be raised with MNZ (which I think it has) and reviewed from there.

Yes and no...I realize they don't race at MNZ events (as they are cars not bikes) but everyone is saying it is the Council that imposes these noise limits on the tracks not MNZ, MNZ merely police their/our own laws which happen to be the same as the Councils 95Db limit....apparently?! Anyway, it has been raised with MNZ and it will be sorted I'm sure...this thread is interesting non the less.