NOW - New Ordered World

[Woodman]

So who is going to stop me being a drunken, fat, motorbike ridin, non working non contributing member of this society? A lynchmob?

[mashman]

So who is going to stop me being a drunken, fat, motorbike ridin, non working non contributing member of this society? A lynchmob?

No one. No doubt those types of people exist under the current system. I'm sure your contribution will be missed.

[Woodman]

No one. No doubt those types of people exist under the current system. I'm sure your contribution will be missed.

Yes, but with the current system I cannot afford it, but with your system I can do it 24/7.

The point I am trying to make is that why would someone work when they don't have to. What is stopping someone not going to work at the factory that exports stuff that has to meet deadlines, but the workers just come and go as they please with no consequences.

[Ender EnZed]

The point I am trying to make is that why would someone work when they don't have to.

This.^^^

How many people at the moment have a job that they would continue going to if they weren't being paid to and they had heaps of money? I doubt there'd be many.

[NinjaNanna]

Seems to me this ideal meets needs very very well, what I can't get my head around is how is addresses wants and where you draw the line in the sand in regards to greed.

[slowpoke]

Cheers FM... I'm too stoopid to give a shit about what people think of me, specially when the idea is about everyone.

Hmmmm, interesting that you don't care what anyone thinks....yet you are trying to connect with everyone. Good on you for promoting thought but the defeatism and anagonism counteract your good work.

[mashman]

Yes, but with the current system I cannot afford it, but with your system I can do it 24/7.

The point I am trying to make is that why would someone work when they don't have to. What is stopping someone not going to work at the factory that exports stuff that has to meet deadlines, but the workers just come and go as they please with no consequences.

True... go fill yer boots. I'll be working and won't know wether you're working or not unless I live next door to you, so it won't affect my performance.

I understand what you're getting at and as I keep saying, that's your choice not to contribute. It currently happens. Granted I'm arguing for people to have a social conscience, to want a "better" society and to want to contribute in some way or other. Not everyone will have to, but I would hope, yes hope, that the majority would want to... otherwise NOW won't work and I accept that.

This.^^^

How many people at the moment have a job that they would continue going to if they weren't being paid to and they had heaps of money? I doubt there'd be many.

I wouldn't, unless my job was value add for NZ... and that's the point really. If you can do something to help your community thrive under NOW, why wouldn't you? Could you, with free education, encourage participation instead of selfishness? So in regards to the lazy, meh, they already exist. Who knows, they may get off their arses to and do something in their local community for a few hours a week, maybe they won't... It's a choice we would each have to make. The added incentive is not going back to a financial economy (as screwy as that might sound).

Seems to me this ideal meets needs very very well, what I can't get my head around is how is addresses wants and where you draw the line in the sand in regards to greed.

The wants are very much the sticky point and I'm surprised no one has brought up travel yet, as that seems to have been one of the fave's with folk I've chatted to. There are no easy answers to that, just potential ideas. The only real way to gauge how many of the wants we can furnish is to find out how much money the country can make, for imports, and how many of those wants can be satisfied free by doing it locally. Can you give me an example of the type of greed you're concerned with?

[mashman]

Hmmmm, interesting that you don't care what anyone thinks....yet you are trying to connect with everyone. Good on you for promoting thought but the defeatism and anagonism counteract your good work.

heh, negative and antagonistic? I'm not concerned about what people think of me in regards to putting the idea out there, the cuckoo factor, being a wanker etc... the sticks and stones stuff... and I didn't think I was being defeatist or antagonistic? I'm very much a realist .

Why is it that people can't separate an idea from the person communicating it? they are two entirely different things.

[Zedder]

heh, negative and antagonistic? I'm not concerned about what people think of me in regards to putting the idea out there, the cuckoo factor, being a wanker etc... the sticks and stones stuff... and I didn't think I was being defeatist or antagonistic? I'm very much a realist .

Why is it that people can't separate an idea from the person communicating it? they are two entirely different things.

You sound surprised Mashman, this is Kiwi Biker after all.

[mashman]

You sound surprised Mashman, this is Kiwi Biker after all.

heh, I wish it were just KB where that sort of thinking prevailed. Damn I wish I had smiley johns smile, I could get away with anyfink.

[Zedder]

heh, I wish it were just KB where that sort of thinking prevailed. Damn I wish I had smiley johns smile, I could get away with anyfink.

Don't tell me you've sought feedback for this load of sh....sorry, I mean this ground breaking manifesto from elsewhere as well.

[mashman]

Don't tell me you've sought feedback for this load of sh....sorry, I mean this ground breaking manifesto from elsewhere as well.

yes I have... and fuck off, NOW

[MSTRS:Me]

Whilst it seems like a brilliant idea - on the surface - the more it gets scratched at, the more it's flaws are exposed.
I 'accused' MM of promoting the UltimateCommunistState (TM) and I still think it is. Factor in a large dose of the Hippy movement of the 60s/70s and think Commune. Exactly the same sort of thinking. They worked out well, too. Didn't they?
Commune - Communist. I'm seeing a BIG similarity here.

[NinjaNanna]

Can you give me an example of the type of greed you're concerned with?

To those currently less off than me my wants are luxurious
To me they are simply wants and maybe a little aspirational
To those better off than me my wants are insignificant and easily attainable

I guess my point about greed is who's benchmark do we take for determining what level of want is acceptable and are they handed out even handedly, or will there still be have's and havenot's in NOW - with the major difference being that all will have their needs properly met?

[NinjaNanna]

incidentally I heard an opinion on the radio the other day that stated, "how many millions of people in the world would love access to my rubbish bin, in reality despite the recession and downturn, we are still filthy rich"

sobering thought really.