Rule change in BSB - do we effectively have the same rule?

[steveyb]

The MCRCB, the governing body of the MCE Insurance British Superbike Championship, have reacted speedily to prevent any repetition of the cause of the track contamination that contributed to the postponement of the second race of the opening round at Brands Hatch.

Then the circuit was left in a treacherous state by fluids dropped from machines that had crashed and which their riders remounted and continued during a race. That practice is now outlawed by a rule change introduced with immediate effect during the second round at Thruxton.

"The situation at Brands Hatch was the catalyst for the MCRCB and MSVR to review the situation - we have never been completely comfortable with the rule that was introduced back in 1996 as often riders have remounted with no apparent damage only to subsequently have a fluid leak, mechanical damage or, for instance as Tommy Hill disastrously discovered in 2010 at Oulton Park, no brakes," explained Series Director Stuart Higgs.

Now, a rule change has been introduced by the MCRCB which bans the practice of picking up a crashed machine and continuing during practice or races.

The official wording is: "Riders who fall from their machine are not permitted to continue in the practice session or race until passed fit by a Medical Officer (note: at BSB events there are Medical Officers on each corner around the circuit) and the machine re-inspected and cleared by Technical Control. Any infringement of this rule will result in the rider being disqualified from the remainder of the practice session or race and may result in further penalties.

"In the event of a practice or race being interrupted by a red flag, any crashed machines will be recovered and taken to Technical Control and released to the Team for repair. Once the repaired machine has been re-inspected and cleared by a Technical Officer a rider may continue in the restarted practice or race. In the second part of an interrupted race this applies to riders classified in the results of the first part."

MSVR consulted with the riders and Superbike elite teams, issuing by e-mail and publishing to them a document detailing the proposed rule change and asking for comments.

"Superbike team managers have expressed support and we had no negative responses to our e-mail from anyone else," explained Higgs. "There are some 250 motorcycle road race meetings held in the UK each year and all but 12 BSB and 3 World Championship events have a no re-start rule. We understand the one bike rule has put riders under severe pressure to get their bike back at any cost but this has left our championship and their safety quite vulnerable. The one bike rule will remain in the current climate - its success shows in maintaining the grid numbers and this has been replicated in the Moto2, Moto3, Supersport and Superbike World Championships and it is proposed for the MotoGP class in 2013."

There will be no "discretionary situations" although notice has been taken of the points raised by team managers as to the importance of the first 50 minutes period of BSB free practice at each round in terms of setting up machines.

An additional comment to the new rule explains: "If five minutes before the 50% point of the duration of the BSB FP1 session there are machines that require recovering via the circuit the Race Director will advise that he will interrupt the session by displaying the chequered flag at the 50% point. The machines will then be recovered to Technical Control and the session restarted as soon as possible, lost time will not be added to the total session duration."


Does our current rule indicating that any bike that has been crashed must be presented for safety inspection (scruitineering) before returning the the circuit, effectively mean the same thing? That if you crash in a practice or race session you and your bike really must be checked out before you can continue??????

Comments?

[slowpoke]

It should do...but it doesn't seem to be enforced.

[Billy]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

[Mental Trousers]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

Got my support (not that I'm anyone of importance) for both those.

After lunching an engine at Paeroa and finding half a conrod in the belly pan (it's a fully enclosed one) I'm really, really happy to have had it fitted. It was a total engine failure that would've left 4 litres of oil and assorted bits of engine on the circuit if I hadn't had that belly pan fitted. I'm certainly not going to be responsible for holding the entire day up when it's easy enough to get hold of and fit a fairing.

There's 2 other safety items (compulsory overseas but not even mentioned in NZ) that I'll be doing with my bike (picking up a replacement today ) and that's

• fitting a sharks tooth
• lever guard for the brake

I like having all of my fingers and toes as they are and I don't want to slam into the track like Deano did at Hampton Downs.

Lever guard

Sharks tooth chain guard

[jellywrestler]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

Delivered?? here if it's rideable that seems the way to get it back to the pits???? even so a lot of the trailers the clubs use are bike trailers and can leak like shit too.
if a rules going to be made it needs to tidy up these loose areas methinks

[Kickaha]

Not sure why you would need this rule isn't it only sidecars that dump oil or have we been misinformed the whole time?

[Billy]

Delivered?? here if it's rideable that seems the way to get it back to the pits???? even so a lot of the trailers the clubs use are bike trailers and can leak like shit too.
if a rules going to be made it needs to tidy up these loose areas methinks

And thats why we intend to clarify it further.

[CHOPPA]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

I like the idea of the bellypan. They inforce this hard in ozzy. Your simply not allowed on track and they inspect every bike every time.

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.

The other rule that needs some attention is the bloody red flag rule! Whats the deal with riders getting points when they cause a red flag! If you have crashed, even if it wasnt your fault and the red flag comes out you shouldnt be allowed to restart and you should be excluded from the results

[quickbuck]

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.

Just to chlarify there Choppa, you are talking about Dans crash at Taupo?
Two different clubs, and one of them applied the rules correctly.....

If it is the same meeting/Club, then they are still bad, as it is applying the rules inconsistantly!

[quickbuck]

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.

Just to chlarify there Choppa, you are talking about Dans crash at Taupo?
Two different clubs, and one of them applied the rules correctly.....

If it is the same meeting/Club, then they are still bad, as it is applying the rules inconsistantly!

The other rule that needs some attention is the bloody red flag rule! Whats the deal with riders getting points when they cause a red flag! If you have crashed, even if it wasnt your fault and the red flag comes out you shouldnt be allowed to restart and you should be excluded from the results .

Yup... I have been miffed (hard done by) by this myself...

[steveyb]

The two different crashes were in quite different scenarios.
In crash 1 it was the middle of the race, but the rider hopped up quickly (and how the fuck he did that is beyond me 'cos for a change I actually saw the whole thing and he went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up in the air. He must be Mr Rubber Man) and carried on in the race. The race was not stopped and no one said anything to said rider.

In crash 2 it was also the middle of the race (duh, of course it was), the rider had stopped and not rejoined the race and was lying in a dangerous position, so the race was stopped. A few things then happened and he did not get his bike or himself re-checked and was excluded from the race on the start line.

Under the rules therefore, the rider in crash 1 probably should have: a) just walked away, b) returned directly to pit-lane for check and then carry on albeit then behind the pack, c) been black-flagged and removed from the race.

In crash 2 there were also some issues such as: a) letting the riders from the dummy grid go back on track while there was still a bike on track that no one knew if it was damaged and leaking or anything, b) not waiting the full time before letting the other bikes go so that the remaining rider could return to pitlane and be checked, therefore making the last rider think that he needed to stop on the start line (even though apparently he had been told otherwise). But that action by officials did not help the all round situation, which at the end of the day, was very unfortunate for all concerned. The manner in which the rider was excluded was also not great and could have been better dealt with by displaying a black flag prior to the start. But remember that this all happened and needed to be decided on in a matter of minutes and was actually quite a new or different ocurrence for most concerned.

But we have a culture of applauding riders who crash, then pick their bikes up and carry on in the race. Even in MotoGP riders do it if they can. But anyone who does is strictly speaking, breaking the rules and should either return directly to parc-ferme/tech check area (which by the way is NEVER defined at any meeting I have been to except AMCC NZSBK events and then it is not on pit-lane and is removed after morning tech checks are finished), or be black flagged from the remainder of the race.

The issue about riders involved in creating the red-flag incident I think can get very complicated. There are scenarios whereby riders who become involved due to anothers error or misfortune will be deemed to have been party to causing the race stoppage. Under the environment espoused above, those riders will also be refused rights to restart the re-run race. I think this is unfair and I can absolutely guarantee that any rider now suggesting that any rider(s) causing the red flag be excluded from any restart, if they were the innocent party, would start complaining to high heaven. I believe that if you can get back to the pit-lane, be repaired and rechecked within the 5 minute window (which by the way I am not sure is actually in any of our rules but is in MotoGP, the two get mixed up you know, you can see why can't you??) then you have all rights to re start regardless of your contribution to the race stoppage.

But, that then allows crashed bikes back onto the track to return to the pits. If we wish to create the environment such that the BSB ruling is creating, then the rules must state that any crashed bike must be removed from the circuit and not allowed to rejoin the race in any way and only returned to the pits at a time convienient to the organisers.

In addition, all red-flagged races are taken back one lap from the lap of the red-flag. Therefore by definition, the rider(s) causing the red flag were still in the race and have a finishing position because under that logic the red-flag lap never actually occurred as far as race results are concerned. I do believe it to be unfair and illogical to then exclude all riders involved in the red-flag incident from the results. And again, the scenario of innocent parties is relevant. An innocent party will complain to high heaven if he/she is excluded when someone else caused the incident but that 'innocent' rider was part of the red-flag incident. And don't go on about the rider who caused it being the only one who will get excluded, because very often these situations are not black and white and one party argues the other caused it and vice versa. So it is problematic all round.

That's all I have to say 'bout that. You can see I have nothing else to do (which isn't strictly true).

[CHOPPA]

My argument to the fact that even innocent parties that are tied up in a red flag causing incident, is that if there wasnt a red flag and the race carried on as usual they would be out of the race anyway. Thats racing....

Racing is not rewarding someone that is stupid enough to lay on the track when they are not hurt. I have seen it done BTW

[Billy]

In crash 2 there were also some issues such as: a) letting the riders from the dummy grid go back on track while there was still a bike on track that no one knew if it was damaged and leaking or anything, b) not waiting the full time before letting the other bikes go so that the remaining rider could return to pitlane and be checked, therefore making the last rider think that he needed to stop on the start line (even though apparently he had been told otherwise). But that action by officials did not help the all round situation, which at the end of the day, was very unfortunate for all concerned. The manner in which the rider was excluded was also not great and could have been better dealt with by displaying a black flag prior to the start. But remember that this all happened and needed to be decided on in a matter of minutes and was actually quite a new or different ocurrence for most concerned.

What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????

[Maido]

scenario: Rider gets pushed wide and run off the track where he is on the grass, he (or she) pulls bike up and turns to get back on the track when front tucks at 5km/h no damage to bike of rider besides embarrasment. this is a crash. does this fit the 'ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear" rule.
Also, I was taken out at HD, I remounted and got back on and finished the race (what a hero I am ). There was a few scratches on the bike, no "damage" as such (thanks to my trusty GB racing engine cover protectors brought from Kev at Race Supplies ). I would have been pissed if I was cut from the rules. I think there is alot of grey area there that could go either way. Same with teh red flag rules. There are countless pro's and con's and different scenarios that have to be considered before a final rule can be made.

[jellywrestler]

no damage to bike of rider besides embarrasment.

problem is how can you be sure this is the case? one can't hold the bike up and kick the tyres and wiggle a couple of extremities to check them too, on the side of the track very easily can one?
Not singling out you or anyone else either BTW