An investigation of motorcycle rider use of and attitudes to high visibility gear

[GrayWolf]

MotoNZ is the client? This is news to me. I am a council member of MotoNZ and a member of the proposals subcommittee. I am not aware that we are the client of this work and as far as I am aware we have not been asked to endorse it and I doubt we would at this point in time.

I completed your survey and on the last question noted to you that the research suggests the best bang for bucks on conspicuity is likely to be with the bike and not necessarily the rider. The jury is well and truly still out on hi viz jackets. Visibility can be defined at the ability to see an object against the background when you know where the object is. Conspicuity can be defined at the ability for an object to stand out against the background when you are not looking for it and don't know the object is there ie grabs your attention. In certain circumstances high viz jackets/vests are not that visible let alone conspicious.

We would be grateful if you could retract/correct the assertion that MotoNZ is the client for this work. We are likely to be interested in the results just as we are interested in the results of any research.

David Crawford.

Given the statement made by David Crawford, that MOTO NZ are not the client at the end of this 'research paper' I would ask the Moderators to please
to please investigate that the group posting this survey in KB are indeed who they claim to be. I suddenly smell rotting flesh!!

[MrKiwi]

I'm not implying this research is not valid or that the group doing it is not bona fide. It's more that I had not heard of it until yesterday and I would have expected to if I'm one of the people supposedly going to be the client of it!

Research into attitudes towards hi viz gear is a worthwhile subject, it would be nice to have some valid data on people's perceptions and attitudes.

[rastuscat]

The thing is Pete:
If hi-vis stops somebody from pulling out on front of a bike etc it is highly unlikely the potentially offending driver is going to follow you home to say "Wow man, that hi-vis really works, Iwouldn't have noticed you if you hadn't been wearing it"

So measuring its effectiveness is going to be almost impossible.

It's hard to measure that which doesn't happen.

It's hard to know how effective hi viz is.

It's hard to give up donuts.

So I haven't.

[GrayWolf]

I'm not implying this research is not valid or that the group doing it is not bona fide. It's more that I had not heard of it until yesterday and I would have expected to if I'm one of the people supposedly going to be the client of it!

Research into attitudes towards hi viz gear is a worthwhile subject, it would be nice to have some valid data on people's perceptions and attitudes.

whether the research IS bona fide or not as far as a valid student project, I know from having done a University research project that if you intend to focus your project on a client, you are supposed to have been in discussion with them before formulating the hypothesis. So if you have no knowledge of this research, it causes me a reason for concern as to the claims made and its real target client??


As for research into attitudes, you are a member of this forum... you have a fantastic opportunity to conduct this research or a survey yourself, AND get a fantastic cross section of population here. So, why not do it yourselves?

[Usarka]

It's hard to measure that which doesn't happen.

It's hard to know how effective hi viz is.

It's hard to give up donuts.

So I haven't.

Exactly. It's also hard to know how safe red bikes are opposed to green bikes. So should we pass a law saying red bikes are compulsory because "it sounds about right"?

[jellywrestler]

the thing that sticks out most about the impending compulsary wearing of dayglo stuff is while a few learners do wear them so we can look out for them as newcomers, they will become indistinguishable (unless the l plate becomes a little flashing light...)

[MrKiwi]

the thing that sticks out most about the impending compulsary wearing of dayglo stuff is while a few learners do wear them so we can look out for them as newcomers, they will become indistinguishable (unless the l plate becomes a little flashing light...)

I'm not aware of any official initiatives to make the wearing of hi viz clothing in New Zealand compulsory, am I missing something? And before you answer I should point out I have a reasonably good understanding of most road safety programs across government, particularly those related to motorbike safety, although it is hard to keep up with everything.

Just intrigued as to whether this is based on best guess or something more solid?

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm not aware of any official initiatives to make the wearing of hi viz clothing in New Zealand compulsory, am I missing something? And before you answer I should point out I have a reasonably good understanding of most road safety programs across government, particularly those related to motorbike safety, although it is hard to keep up with everything.

Just intrigued as to whether this is based on best guess or something more solid?

The official "push" has started, anyone who can't see that obviously can't see the forrest for the trees (it's even mentioned in the "safer journeys for motorcycling")

Use of protective clothing (eg hi-vis jackets)

But depending on what you mean by "official initiatives" that may not have been started???
We have started our move towards compulsory hi-vis, research has been started, promotion & education is starting up... sure NZ will probably sit back a couple years push the propaganda, most likely wait for either UK or Oz to adopt it before forcing upon us here. But make no mistake it is coming, the "push" has begun.

[SimJen]

Hi Viz in my view makes no difference.
I've been on bright bikes with bright gear and noisy pipes and people still pull out in front of you......why! well I'll tell you why, they have already committed themselves to the intersection, their brain already believes nothing is coming because they must get home or they are late for an appointment or they are meeting up with a hottie from NZDating or something!
And as for the people that see you coming and go anyway, you can see it click in their eyes, they then go, then stop a little, then just give it the berries anyway. At least they see you I suppose, but it still doesn't register in that one brain cell that needs to learn how to work again!
It happens whether you're on a bicycle, motorbike, car, bus, truck.....whatever, people need to realise the risks, drive properly and have regard for other road users, simple as that.
If we ride as if everyone wants us dead then we might all live a little longer!

[p.dath]

It's hard to measure that which doesn't happen.

It's hard to know how effective hi viz is.

Ahh, but it does happen - we have riders who were high-viz, and we have riders who don't. So it can be measured. So far to date those measurements have indicated it doesn't make much difference.

[Crasherfromwayback]

or they are meeting up with a hottie from NZDating !

Oxymoron!!

[bogan]

I'm not aware of any official initiatives to make the wearing of hi viz clothing in New Zealand compulsory, am I missing something? And before you answer I should point out I have a reasonably good understanding of most road safety programs across government, particularly those related to motorbike safety, although it is hard to keep up with everything.

Just intrigued as to whether this is based on best guess or something more solid?

The preamble for it is on your website...

The visibility project

Council has reviewed all submissions to its RFP for the Visibility Project and it’s on track for a contract being negotiated during April.

The first stage will pull together in one report all that’s been done overseas and in New Zealand, and review what’s proved effective and what is emerging technology that might work in New Zealand.

We want this to lead to an innovative project, so we are taking care to get the focus to reflect this

I'd certainly like to believe it will lead to an innovative project, but considering what you guys have spent my glove money on so far, I won't be holding my breath.

Ahh, but it does happen - we have riders who were high-viz, and we have riders who don't. So it can be measured. So far to date those measurements have indicated it doesn't make much difference.

Not that simple, the demographic of riders that wear high vis is certainly not indicative of the overall rider group. This is the weak point that makes the results of all those studies useless.

[Scuba_Steve]

Not that simple, the demographic of riders that wear high vis is certainly not indicative of the overall rider group. This is the weak point that makes the results of all those studies useless.

End of the day you can do as much study as you want, fact remains "hi-vis" doesn't work, it's useless!.
If people can't see a huge piece of steel weighing in at over 82,000 tonne with at-least another 328,000 tonne following, making more noise than a pack of Harleys without exhausts, standing 3.7m tall with the whole front painted bright yellow to be "hi-vis" ...there's a shit show in hell they're gonna see a tiny little biker with a bright yellow jacket & a headlight on.

[MrKiwi]

The preamble for it is on your website...



I'd certainly like to believe it will lead to an innovative project, but considering what you guys have spent my glove money on so far, I won't be holding my breath.



...

I tend to think it's going to be a fairly innovative project, but then you might expect me to say that. Only time will tell.

.. signing out on this subject for a while... Cheers.

[Bassmatt]

I tend to think it's going to be a fairly innovative project, but then you might expect me to say that. Only time will tell.

.. signing out on this subject for a while... Cheers.

I have a bad feeling.....