Moto 3 in NZ

[RDjase]

Are any of the MX 250 engines available new with wiring, throttle bodies etc?

Or do you have to buy a 2nd hand MX bike, strip it, rebuild the engine and try and sell the rolling frame

[scott411]

Are any of the MX 250 engines available new with wiring, throttle bodies etc?

Or do you have to buy a 2nd hand MX bike, strip it, rebuild the engine and try and sell the rolling frame

pretty hard to get new engines ready to go like that, you would beed to by a bike and sell the frame,

[Ivan]

that isnt a tz chassis that is framecrafters own chassis using a yz250f engine that is why i was saying a crazyman frame if you have seen his bikes they are very much a new zealand made version of the tigcraft which are based around the rs and use rs running gear i am not trying to create a bucket class just if you have rode a gp bike you would understand how awsome they are handling etc if we could have frames built to fit the yz250f etc and then use either tz or rs forks wheels swingarm we would be moving the class into a new era

i agree prolites is a good class but end of the day they are a commuter bike turned into a bike for the track 125gp and moto3 are porpouse built race bikes the frames teach you so much when you ride them they do want you want them to do and is really a good class to learn on,

if we could have people buying frames like what i have said then manufactors like yamaha honda suzuki etc might come on board and help sell you a cheap bike and it would make a brand class plus would also give the class a good new era as 125s are going to die out parts are getting more expensive we looked at rebuilding our 96 rs but it just was not worth it so its going to sit there and do what its doing now looking good

[worm13]

crazy man whos he?? never seen em!! but do you need to have a complete frame rebuild surely you can use a existing gp bike for it, but the time you get a frame built by all the good gp bits plus engine exhaust electrics hello pro twin you seem a better option to me! why a hand built chassis someone make a kit for the engine conversion for example ford with a straight 6 to a v8... dont see any of them building new frames to suit

[Ivan]

on here thats his user name hes built a awsome bike for his brother its similar to a rs125 using rs forks swingarm the lot but running a v4 honda 400 engine

you can convert a frame to make it fit but theres alot of butchering i was thinking if you brought a whole rs and wanted to go four stroke keep the rs frame and engine as they will get rare and might be worth something and have a custom frame built to not butcher the rs up and just use its forks etc a rs is a really tight little frame and the four stroke engines are abit bigger and fatter than the rs engine so if you custom built a frame you could build it around the engine you are using and just use rs/tz geomatry

[SWERVE]

Ok..here goes
I see 3 types of racers: Club/Street race/ occasional riders of all ages - who with club sub regs (depending on classes popular within club) are pretty well catered for.
Seasoned higher level/national level riders - who regardless of class/cost/age/etc will continue in the sport cos its what they do.
And most importantly..... The existing junior / younger generation riders / and even more importantely the yet to be introduced young riders - who are the future of our sport and for those who wish to see another kiwi on the world stage.... our future champions.

I believe that we do need to look at how we can introduce kids from the same age as junior MotoX into some kind of circuit racing. Minimoto is the obvious choice... dont know why this isnt working in NZ...it should be bursting at the seams..with under 10,s and those who are complaining of the cost of real racing!
I would like to see kids from 10 onwards able to race in classes like the development class at MCC. (The legal ramifications cant be that bad as MX do it) So by aged 13 we have veterans of circuit racing who now need a pathway.
Prolite: Perfect a chance to compete on similar machinary that isnt to compilcated.... where talant will shine through. It will allow the real race experience at national level and straight away the possibility of inter country riding (as many countries run these bikes as a series).

Step 2 -Now is the time to change/set the rules for 125gp / F3 for the future of both NZ & overseas competitors. As MNZ have done the inclusion of 250 machines into the existing class (125) will see people to race a variety of machinary both old / new / and a hybid of the two. Gradually the tide will turn and it will become a more moto 3 type class. And if someone wants to buy a MOTO 3 bike then bring it on.
F3..../ Protwin.. This definately needs some kind of parity (particuallyfor national competition) The current F3 rules are IMHO (trying to cater for every NZer) Protwin should have been an awesome class.... dont know why it isnt. - This years saw very evenly matched bikes with a variety of ages. Top 4 all had at least one win and if Deano hadnt crashed out it would probebly been top 5 taking a win. But sadly lost within the F3 field.

I think plans should be put in place to follow the lines of Budda,s 450 moto idea (and why not include the Ozzy type 450s too).... which as he says would currently fit in, but look at this as the future of F3 (or whatever you call it)
This would be a great step up class / type of bike for up & coming young bloods. A chance to take a step up in power with a bike that has sorted suspension / etc .
IMHO 600,s should be inline with other countries production rules
And superbike should be just that a SUPERBIKE that every young hopeful aspires to ride..... and that pushes the boundries of rider ability and entertains the crowd.
As i said earlier i think clubs bend over backwards to accomodate their members at club level. But would like to see a more defined path of classes/rules for higher level competition.
People such as Maarty / Steveyb / Red Fenton are already bringing in overseas riders and sending Nzers the other way. The likes of Avalon / Jake / John R / Danial M / Travis M are taking it upon themselves. Im sure there will be more..... lets try and make it lots more and much easier to compete on a bike similar to the one at home.
Dont think rules / classes need to follow other countries (too analy) much beyond the 125/250/moto3 class as any youngster who is gonna make it will have made the move by this point....... aged around 16 hopefully.
While my main thoughts are with junior development and their part in the future of our sport.... all classes should be open to all ages (although i wouldnt mind an age limit in Prolite (poss 20) to make it a specific junior class)
There........... feel free to shoot me down in flames

[worm13]

I my self if i was running a 125gp bike and this came out as option I would prefer to use what ive got and run the for stroke motor, if a kit was made for the change of engine mounts spacings and a jig for cuting what needs to be cut it makes the conversion from 125gp to moto3 simple, yeah man go nuts with a hand built fame I have no issues there but keeping it simple to start with to get it off the ground and then let it evolve.
can someone explain why 250gp died in nz and it did it before moto2 had even started does the 125s have anything in common with what happened there?
Im not trying to be an arse here but start up cost would put alot of parents off from starting there kids out in road racing vs mx, Im like you Ivan I started racing from the oldies pockets to start with and was very lucky that the old man brought me a f3 bike but after that it was after school work to pay for everything for the bike, and then cost of racing as you would know is far cheaper then what we have to day. Im not saying this has to be cheap it has to accesable for new entry riders (kids/teenages) as to be honest over the past years there hasnt been a whole heap of 125 riders over the age of 30.
I would love to see a grid of 15 young'uns on bikes like this mx can get it why cant we?

[SWERVE]

Are any of the MX 250 engines available new with wiring, throttle bodies etc?

Or do you have to buy a 2nd hand MX bike, strip it, rebuild the engine and try and sell the rolling frame

Try importing a turnkey motor package from the states............. friend of mine imported an R1 motor with all ancillaries including dash (700miles) for a fraction of cost of even a secondhand bike.
Worth a thought................. what you planning Jase...!

[Mental Trousers]

Step 2 -Now is the time to change/set the rules for 125gp / F3 for the future of both NZ & overseas competitors. As MNZ have done the inclusion of 250 machines into the existing class (125) will see people to race a variety of machinary both old / new / and a hybid of the two. Gradually the tide will turn and it will become a more moto 3 type class. And if someone wants to buy a MOTO 3 bike then bring it on.
F3..../ Protwin.. This definately needs some kind of parity (particuallyfor national competition) The current F3 rules are IMHO (trying to cater for every NZer) Protwin should have been an awesome class.... dont know why it isnt. - This years saw very evenly matched bikes with a variety of ages. Top 4 all had at least one win and if Deano hadnt crashed out it would probebly been top 5 taking a win. But sadly lost within the F3 field.

I think plans should be put in place to follow the lines of Budda,s 450 moto idea (and why not include the Ozzy type 450s too).... which as he says would currently fit in, but look at this as the future of F3 (or whatever you call it)

I don't see any reason to change F3. For the foreseeable future there's going to be plenty of 650cc twins and there's more and more 600's being converted to 450cc. There's also people who turn up with machines out of left field (Aprilia engined TigCraft etc), which is great. Since the rules have changed there's at least one 400cc twin 2 stroke in an Aprilia RS frame that I know of too

Interesting that converting 450's to road race bikes has taken off big time overseas but I've only seen about 4 here.

[crazy man]

crazy man whos he?? never seen em!! but do you need to have a complete frame rebuild surely you can use a existing gp bike for it, but the time you get a frame built by all the good gp bits plus engine exhaust electrics hello pro twin you seem a better option to me! why a hand built chassis someone make a kit for the engine conversion for example ford with a straight 6 to a v8... dont see any of them building new frames to suit

looks like crazy man is on your friends list (-; . l dont like 125s been choped and changed. l think buckets is still a real good class regardless of what people say. maybe a multi built frame that can take all sorts of engines like start with a bucket then a 250f then a 450f for f3 . a good steping stone . after you have finshed with it you can put your rs125 back togetter or just find the parts to keep together .wheels, forks and on

[worm13]

looks like crazy man is on your friends list (-; . l dont like 125s been choped and changed. l think buckets is still a real good class regardless of what people say. maybe a multi built frame that can take all sorts of engines like start with a bucket then a 250f then a 450f for f3 . a good steping stone . after you have finshed with it you can put your rs125 back togetter or just find the parts to keep together .wheels, forks and on

I remember you as funny man! aka funny looking, funny smelling... the list goes on but not everyone knows your frames as crazy man frames or your the man behind behind Glenn W's SV frame by the way you gonna be at daves tomorrow?

[crazy man]

on here thats his user name hes built a awsome bike for his brother its similar to a rs125 using rs forks swingarm the lot but running a v4 honda 400 engine

you can convert a frame to make it fit but theres alot of butchering i was thinking if you brought a whole rs and wanted to go four stroke keep the rs frame and engine as they will get rare and might be worth something and have a custom frame built to not butcher the rs up and just use its forks etc a rs is a really tight little frame and the four stroke engines are abit bigger and fatter than the rs engine so if you custom built a frame you could build it around the engine you are using and just use rs/tz geomatry

like that (-:

[budda]

I don't see any reason to change F3. For the foreseeable future there's going to be plenty of 650cc twins and there's more and more 600's being converted to 450cc. There's also people who turn up with machines out of left field (Aprilia engined TigCraft etc), which is great. Since the rules have changed there's at least one 400cc twin 2 stroke in an Aprilia RS frame that I know of too

Interesting that converting 450's to road race bikes has taken off big time overseas but I've only seen about 4 here.

Dont WANT to change Superlite rules, Dont NEED to, as the 450 single idea already fits neatly into the rules as written .... all it will take is for more people to DO it ( build and race one - heaps of retards out there, just lower them and bung bodywork and rearsets on )

Dont require any change to the 125 Class rules EITHER, its all there on a plate and has been for a couple of years now - all it needs is for someone to be FIRST

The 5 guys on the then Commission had over 170 years experience at the pointy end of the Sport, we didnt make these changes for shits and giggles - it was to give you guys, the riders and builders, more scope, more choice, more options for the future ........

seems all we achieved was more and more indecision from more and more people

[crazy man]

I remember you as funny man! aka funny looking, funny smelling... the list goes on but not everyone knows your frames as crazy man frames or your the man behind behind Glenn W's SV frame by the way you gonna be at daves tomorrow?

yip l will be there think l should change my name to burn out crazy man

[budda]

Ok..here goes
I see 3 types of racers: Club/Street race/ occasional riders of all ages - who with club sub regs (depending on classes popular within club) are pretty well catered for.
Seasoned higher level/national level riders - who regardless of class/cost/age/etc will continue in the sport cos its what they do.
And most importantly..... The existing junior / younger generation riders / and even more importantely the yet to be introduced young riders - who are the future of our sport and for those who wish to see another kiwi on the world stage.... our future champions.

I believe that we do need to look at how we can introduce kids from the same age as junior MotoX into some kind of circuit racing. Minimoto is the obvious choice... dont know why this isnt working in NZ...it should be bursting at the seams..with under 10,s and those who are complaining of the cost of real racing!
I would like to see kids from 10 onwards able to race in classes like the development class at MCC. (The legal ramifications cant be that bad as MX do it) So by aged 13 we have veterans of circuit racing who now need a pathway.
Prolite: Perfect a chance to compete on similar machinary that isnt to compilcated.... where talant will shine through. It will allow the real race experience at national level and straight away the possibility of inter country riding (as many countries run these bikes as a series).

Step 2 -Now is the time to change/set the rules for 125gp / F3 for the future of both NZ & overseas competitors. As MNZ have done the inclusion of 250 machines into the existing class (125) will see people to race a variety of machinary both old / new / and a hybid of the two. Gradually the tide will turn and it will become a more moto 3 type class. And if someone wants to buy a MOTO 3 bike then bring it on.
F3..../ Protwin.. This definately needs some kind of parity (particuallyfor national competition) The current F3 rules are IMHO (trying to cater for every NZer) Protwin should have been an awesome class.... dont know why it isnt. - This years saw very evenly matched bikes with a variety of ages. Top 4 all had at least one win and if Deano hadnt crashed out it would probebly been top 5 taking a win. But sadly lost within the F3 field.

I think plans should be put in place to follow the lines of Budda,s 450 moto idea (and why not include the Ozzy type 450s too).... which as he says would currently fit in, but look at this as the future of F3 (or whatever you call it)
This would be a great step up class / type of bike for up & coming young bloods. A chance to take a step up in power with a bike that has sorted suspension / etc .
IMHO 600,s should be inline with other countries production rules
And superbike should be just that a SUPERBIKE that every young hopeful aspires to ride..... and that pushes the boundries of rider ability and entertains the crowd.
As i said earlier i think clubs bend over backwards to accomodate their members at club level. But would like to see a more defined path of classes/rules for higher level competition.
People such as Maarty / Steveyb / Red Fenton are already bringing in overseas riders and sending Nzers the other way. The likes of Avalon / Jake / John R / Danial M / Travis M are taking it upon themselves. Im sure there will be more..... lets try and make it lots more and much easier to compete on a bike similar to the one at home.
Dont think rules / classes need to follow other countries (too analy) much beyond the 125/250/moto3 class as any youngster who is gonna make it will have made the move by this point....... aged around 16 hopefully.
While my main thoughts are with junior development and their part in the future of our sport.... all classes should be open to all ages (although i wouldnt mind an age limit in Prolite (poss 20) to make it a specific junior class)
There........... feel free to shoot me down in flames

Hard to argue with a fair bit of that Merv .........