Comment on Commis corner

[FROSTY:Me]

That assumes there is always 2 marshals per point. Its really hard to get volunteers....

Um I'm sorry if this seems rude but isn't it actually against the rules to run a meeting with marshal points not fully manned/womaned??
happy to be proven wrong.

[FROSTY:Me]

True........
So hear raises another stumbling block
Payed/fully trained marshalls - 3 per flag point... correct flags/signals at all points= happy riders + safer track etc
But that means entry fees go up as is only fair that people benefiting from service pay. IMHO
Oh no they all cry........... we cant afford higher entries (cos we are all poor and destitute)
Cos lets face it...... we are so hard done by with fees / compared to most...........NOT.

Ok......... let me have it.....

What are the entry fees nowadays for a vic club meeting? How does it compare to the price of say a motoTT trck day?

[MSTRS:Me]

Um I'm sorry if this seems rude but isn't it actually against the rules to run a meeting with marshal points not fully manned/womaned??

... yes ...

[Yow Ling]

Um I'm sorry if this seems rude but isn't it actually against the rules to run a meeting with marshal points not fully manned/womaned??
happy to be proven wrong.

... yes ...

3.12 The Club/Promoter shall provide a sufficient number of Flag and Track Marshals who must be briefed prior to the start of the first practice.
Flag Marshals: Are marshals appointed to give signals laid down in these rules. Flag Marshals shall occupy posts along the course assigned to them by the Clerk of the Course.
As soon as the meeting commences all Marshals under the orders of the Clerk of the Course to whom he/she shall immediately report by any means at their disposal (telephone, signal, courier, etc.) all incidents and accidents which occur on the section of the course for which he/she is responsible.

So where does it say that? You guys need to stop making up rules to suit your own needs

[SWERVE]

Dont think comparing track days with race days is a fair comparison. With regards to marshalls / etc... as im sure the legislation for these is different in regards to who does what and how many are doing it.
And at end of day track days are just that (a chance to ride a track) with specific levels of competence in each group being the main focus of organisers. Not to mention on track monitors and the ability to stop any session for any reason deemed a saffty issue.

Race days are exactly that..... A RACE.. where every rider (ok almost all) are out there to go as fast as they need to win or better themselves. And the main objective of organiser is to make sure all those riders follow a set of rules that have been made to try and ensure that racing is as safe as it can be......... and should anything happen it is beyond the control of these organisers and falls into the dangerous sport catagory in the disclamer. Which we all fully understand...

I started life in racing as a marshall in UK aged 14. All flag points had 3 persons. 1/ point manager who had radio contact and gave direct instructions to his/her flaggies and reported incidents/riders to control. This person was told NEVER to leave the flag point and to remain vigilant at all times. Flaggie 1 watched oncoming traffic at all times. Flaggie 2 watched traffic that had passed flag point. If either had to leave to recover bike etc, the others knew there job had to be covered. There were strict do/donts for each position. (Such as never turn your back to the track when picking up a bike or returning to flag point) damn good advice. Each point knew exactly wher their juristiciation started /ended in regards to parts of the track they were responsible for. When i started for many meetings i was only allowed to observe at flag points (and not get in way) Then after mentoring from head flaggies and chief flag marshall i was allowed to be a flaggie but still under very close supervision. After a period of time in which all my learnings were put to use i was considered one of the team.
As a note most of the flag point managers had been doing the job for many many years and were professionals in there field. They were held in very high regard by all riders including all the superstars. Who realised the value of these people.
We were all paid for the day and provided with a hot lunch (and a packed/cut lunch box for the day) I was one of the part timers... but most of the head guys/girls were full time marshalls employed by the track. Many raced or had raced in the past. Their wages as those of all other officials were factored into the pricing of track to the promotor who in turn factored it into entries.
Have to say that it was one of the most professional group of people i have worked with.... i think mainly because every person involved had a passion for the sport and their job.

But back to the point...... if we want such level of service from organisers/officials and to have meetings that run like clockwork and enough bodies to enforce rules correctly and consistantly..then the entry fees/licensing etc wil have to rise to be on a par with other countries................. !
I for one would like to see proper scrutineering of all bikes / highly skilled flaggies / tech stewards / and all the other official jobs being carried out on race day. And would happily pay double what we pay now if that was garanteed.
Nothing wrong with rules and enforcing them as long as it is fairly enforced and consistant to ALL.

[yungatart]

....I for one would like to see proper scrutineering of all bikes / highly skilled flaggies / tech stewards / and all the other official jobs being carried out on race day. And would happily pay double what we pay now if that was garanteed.
Nothing wrong with rules and enforcing them as long as it is fairly enforced and consistant to ALL.

PMCC and Vic club do use a core of highly trained marshals at all of their meetings. Both clubs hold these flaggies in high regard. Apart from flag marshal duties, these guys/girls take on training and mentoring of newbies. We take our role very seriously.

As for paying double what you pay now to race, you would be in the minority, sad to say.

[FROSTY:Me]

So where does it say that? You guys need to stop making up rules to suit your own needs

Where at any point am I "making up rules'?
I asked a question and was apologetic in requiring clarification. My very SPECIFIC reason for asking was in order to define
"3.12 The Club/Promoter shall provide a sufficient number of Flag and Track Marshals"
I was perhaps incorrectly of the understanding that a minimum number of 2 marshalls was concidered to be "sufficient" for every flag point. You would have to be some sort of superman to call in to race control,wave the apropriate flag -possibly flags AND render assistance to a rider engulfed in flame or laying in a position not visible to other riders aproaching.
Rather than a tirade -sit back and think through the very rule YOU quoted.--walk around Pukie,manfeild,ruapuna etc in your head and think of a marshal point where one marshal is sufficient to cover every situation. --also concider that marshalls are also human and require "private" times -especially mid winter.

JUST TO CLARIFY HERE-- I'm not for a second critiquing the dedication of those who put their own lives on hold to run a race meeting.
the question is being asked because theres a lot smarter guys than me out there that will have logical reasoned explainations
--BUT WHAT IF -just one idea raised here or elsewhere gets used and just ONE life is saved or one injury avoided ?.
Isn't THAT worth setting ego's aside for?

[nodrog:Me]

This thread needs a red flag.

[jellywrestler]

Its easy. If you want a $20 piece of plastic and wood so bad you ignore the most basic rules-we can all chip in and have a trophy made for the guy concerned. Problem solved.

great idea, and if they ignore the more important rules we could all chip in about $600, for their Coffin...

[MSTRS:Me]

3.12 The Club/Promoter shall provide a sufficient number of Flag and Track Marshals who must be briefed prior to the start of the first practice.
Flag Marshals: Are marshals appointed to give signals laid down in these rules. Flag Marshals shall occupy posts along the course assigned to them by the Clerk of the Course.
As soon as the meeting commences all Marshals under the orders of the Clerk of the Course to whom he/she shall immediately report by any means at their disposal (telephone, signal, courier, etc.) all incidents and accidents which occur on the section of the course for which he/she is responsible.

So where does it say that? You guys need to stop making up rules to suit your own needs

So just what is a 'sufficient number'? It is certainly a recommendation that there be a marshal at every point, and 2 at certain 'known' points, at a minimum. The reality that meetings are often run under-staffed in marshal terms worries me. Many a time on race day, a call goes out for more volunteers ON THE DAY, because there just aren't 'enough' of us.
Sooner or later, MNZ will introduce an actual number - I just fear that it will be because of an incident due to poor coverage.

...
Have to say that it was one of the most professional group of people i have worked with.... i think mainly because every person involved had a passion for the sport and their job...

The level of professionalism expected has a long way to go in NZ. This is not to say that we don't take our responsibilities seriously...most of us do...but when teenagers and first-timers are heavily utilised...
As I said above, unless or until an incident occurs, that can be directly attributed to a lack of marshal coverage (or attentiveness/training) then what we have is it.

PMCC and Vic club do use a core of highly trained marshals at all of their meetings. Both clubs hold these flaggies in high regard. Apart from flag marshal duties, these guys/girls take on training and mentoring of newbies. We take our role very seriously.

As for paying double what you pay now to race, you would be in the minority, sad to say.

Correct on all counts

[Str8 Jacket]

This thread needs a red flag.

I am thinking black flag for some and definitely the Black flag with orange circle for those who are having obvious mechanical (read mental) issues.....

[Tony.OK]

also concider that marshalls are also human and require "private" times -especially mid winter.

Oh is that why MSTRS and Yungatart marshall together.................its a "keep warm" kind of thing?

[MSTRS:Me]

Oh is that why MSTRS and Yungatart marshall together.................its a "keep warm" kind of thing?

Not recently. She says it's because I smell...

[Kevin G]

So just what is a 'sufficient number'? It is certainly a recommendation that there be a marshal at every point, and 2 at certain 'known' points, at a minimum. The reality that meetings are often run under-staffed in marshal terms worries me. Many a time on race day, a call goes out for more volunteers ON THE DAY, because there just aren't 'enough' of us.
Sooner or later, MNZ will introduce an actual number - I just fear that it will be because of an incident due to poor coverage.


The level of professionalism expected has a long way to go in NZ. This is not to say that we don't take our responsibilities seriously...most of us do...but when teenagers and first-timers are heavily utilised...
As I said above, unless or until an incident occurs, that can be directly attributed to a lack of marshal coverage (or attentiveness/training) then what we have is it.


Correct on all counts

Is it sooner or later...

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down...ns_Raceway.pdf

[FROSTY:Me]

One point I guess worth reminding people of is that we are in New Zealand with a population base smaller than one of the smaller cities in the UK.
% wise we have the same support if not more than in the UK for example.

Could I ask what would happen if for example MotoTT (or similar) were given race dates etc and actually ran the race meetings with the club and mnz folk just providing the official side of things?
Again happy to be shot down in flames here but it would seem to be a win/win situation.