Long distance event safety

[Ender EnZed]

Some ideas- Enforced rest stops with possible assessment of participant for signs of fatigue. Timed points along route that if they break out of time then you know they have been speeding.

I can't imagine that sort of thing being very popular.

If, on Friday morning this week, I was going to a meeting regarding a long distance motorcycle endurance event, and the meeting was to address concerns regarding fatigue and potential speed, what things might I raise?

Give me ideas as to how the risks can be mitigated. The organizer is worried about the potential risk.

FYI, I wear a blue suit. I want the event to happen, how can we make it safer?

I suspect that most people who participate in events like the TT2000 or the Grand Challenge have some idea about what they're getting themselves into, even the first timers. Presumably any event like that would have a riders' briefing in which fatigue is discussed. I.e. You get fatigued more quickly if you're cold or riding at 160km/h etc. You could check what the organiser has prepared for this.

Perhaps the entry form could have a short questionnaire along the lines of "What's the longest ride you've done in a day?" "When was it?" "How tired were you on a scale of 1-10?". Rather than this creating a criteria for entry (and lies) it would be to help the organiser identify riders that they might want to talk to personally to make sure they understand about fatigue.

[MarkW]

Having successfully completed a number of the Rusty Nuts 1000 MILES in 24 hours events there are a number of things that can be done by the organisers to reduce risks:

Pre entries ONLY are allowed with the close off date for entries at least a month prior to the event.

The entry fee is set to a level that reduces the casual type rider and gives the organiser sufficient funds to offer manned check points at regular intervals.

The start of the event is close to adequate supplies of good accommodation and food. This way riders should be better rested prior to the start.

ALL motorcycles are carefully checked prior to be allowed to start – particular care given to tyre tread depth and condition, brake pad thickness, steering, chain lube and adjustment and lighting.

Riders gear is also checked carefully.

A detailed riders briefing is compulsory for all to attend. HUGE emphasis on “IT IS NOT A RACE”

The planned route is available for all to understand early, gas stations and checkpoints all clearly marked.

The actual start time for riding is set so that initial riding is in daylight, then the night riding follows with a much longer daylight period available after darkness than was available before darkness. The 1000 miler used to have the first bike away at 2pm.

No more than 2 or 3 riders leave together – and there is a 1 or 2 minute gap between each rider or group leaving.

Manned checkpoints with sensible people who have the power to “pluck” a rider off the road for a compulsory rest if deemed necessary. Each of these checkpoints have a full list of all participants in their leaving order – if some one goes missing at least the organiser knows between where and where and when the rider disappeared.

After all riders clear each point the point advises event control of this.

All riders have an emergency contact number (land and cell) for the event control.

TWO EXPERIENCED tail end charlies follow 10 minutes after the first rider leaves and stay back until all riders have been through a checkpoint and these two only do the first half of the event. TWO DIFFERENT EXPERIENCED tail end charlies do the second half of the event, again leaving 10 minutes after the last rider through.

Checkpoints have a closure time – if you arrive after the appointed time then the participant can not continue as there is inadequate time remaining for the event to be completed safely and legally.

I hope that the above helps.

[shafty]

I'm with Ocean1, - Riders to submit a ride plan, including answers to questions such as:

- What refreshment stops/times/durations have you planned?
- What is Plan B should you have a mechicanical problem?

Etc - get them thinking...

- What the Rider would do if fatigue set in - eg how would they exit the ride, eg Motel, Family Member lives at X

Good luck

[Headbanger]

Tell everyone to stay home. Obviously with this amount of concern they just aren't up to it.


Follow their own road, go for a road of any length that suits without some douche-bag organizer worrying about the safety aspects.

Its bullshit, and everyone knows it, NZ is so small that long distance isn't even possible, You can eat breakfast, get on the bike,hit the end of the island and be back home for an evening fucking meal on the same day.

Whose this ride for, The girl guides?

Got some biscuits for sale?

[tigertim20]

Tell everyone to stay home. Obviously with this amount of concern they just aren't up to it.


Follow their own road, go for a road of any length that suits without some douche-bag organizer worrying about the safety aspects.

Its bullshit, and everyone knows it, NZ is so small that long distance isn't even possible, You can eat breakfast, get on the bike,hit the end of the island and be back home for an evening fucking meal on the same day.

Whose this ride for, The girl guides?

Got some biscuits for sale?

you are right, it IS up to the riders, BUT
If the organisers arent seen to be doing something proactive to 'support the safety and wellbeing of participants' then events like it will be shit down.
why can people not see that?

You got to roll with the punches, a bit of paperwork aint gonna stop those who actually want to do it anyway, and if doing so is what is required to get the powers that be to fuck off and let people have a fucking great time on a ride, then so be it.

[Berries]

I hate to say it, but education. Everyone is different so enforced stops wont work for all of us - and I don't like being told what to do anyway. While people need to know the signs of fatigue they also need to know when they really really really have to take a break. Might be hard on an endurance race, sorry, ride, but fatigue is a prick we all think we can ride around by opening the visor and singing Kylie songs at full tit and necking bottles of V. When it hits it hits and might be 5km before or after an enforced stop. Get people to truly understand the consequences and you might get some people to take note. Doubtful though, I've only got another 150km to go, I'm sure I can do it even though my head is nodding so much it hits the tank.

The obvious alternative is to exempt those who pre-registered for the event from the open road speed limit. This will reduce the potential influence of fatigue by them finishing before it gets dark, and their exposure to risk will be reduced dramatically. Thinking further ahead for your Friday meeting, perhaps minimum speed limits should be introduced to head off any possible problems related to tiredness. How does 150km/h sound? Throw in the word intervention a couple of times, bang on about Safer Journeys for a while and you might be on to a winner.

Could even be record registrations for an event run by the filth. Think of the PR.

[Jantar]

As the organiser of one such event, the Chatto Creek 1000 miler, I can list some of the precautions that we take in our event.

I pre ride the route a couple of weeks before the event to check on road conditions, major road works, places of likely sunstrike etc. The route is made available to riders at an informal briefing and social evening the night before, and the route board and route sheet also list known hazards.

A formal briefing is given to all riders 30 minutes before the start, and to cover my own arse I video this briefing and keep the memory card so that it is available to anyone who wishes to investigate any incidents that may occur (none have so far). The mere knowledge that the briefing has been videoed ensures that I get the briefing right and I believe it also makes the participants take more notice. Riders leave Chatto Creek at midday.

All bikes must be registered and have a current wof and the rider signs a form stating that he is aware of the hazards involved in particpating in an endurance event and has the appropriate class of licence for his motorcycle.

A mechanic from the local bike shop carries out inconspicuous inspection of the bikes looking at tyres, chains, general condition etc.

There are a mixture of self checkpoints, where photo evidence is required, and manned checkpoints. One of the manned checkpoints, usually around the halfway point includes a compulsory hot meal (cost included in the entry fee). This checkpoint is also a great opportunity for riders to check their progress. We have had riders pull out at this point because although they still feel OK realiose that it is now dark and they still have the same distance to go. A further manned checkpoint at the 3/4 distance mark is mainly so the person manning the checkpoint can assess a rider's fatigue and recommend a rest if required. Manned checkpoints are only opened at such a time that anyone whose average speed exceeds the speed limit will find themselves waiting for the checkpoint to open.

A cooked breakfast is also included in the entry fee.

Riding 1000 miles (1610 km) in 24 hours does not require a high speed. It has been successfully completed on a 175cc Yamaha, and if I could find a suitable 125 cc two stroke, I'd have a go on that. The overall average speed is only 67 kmh, and if you take off the time required for the compulsory stops and fuel etc, then the average speed required climbs to 73 kmh.

Most riders complete the trip in 18 to 20 hours which is a moving average of 85 to 95 kmh.

I generally try to keep the route on scenic roads during daylight hours, and more main roads during the hours of darkness.

As an example, last year we went to Karamea via the west coast, with daylight riding all the way to Karamea. Sunstrike from the setting sun was listed as a hazard on the Karamea Road. Westport on the way out from karamea was the halfway point and the compulsory meal was at Reefton. Then it was over the Lewis Pass, and SH1 to Rakaia where another manned checkpoint assesed the riders. Thompsons track to Mayfield then through Tekapo and Omarama back to Chatto creek.

On another note, most riders who ride this event also ride the event that I believe you are attending the meeting for.

[Woodman]

Or you could, y'know, just assume that the participants are aware that they're responsible for their own safety and need neither their hands held or their eggs sucked. 'Cause there's actually no other way it ever works, eh.

Wot he said.

Submission of plans and a lot of the other stuff suggested will be the beginning of the end for this kind of event.

The process has already started.

[5150]

To turn the tables around a bit. Should there be a info sheet avaliable for the riders? Especially the first timers who never done it before but who want to try? And what info would you recommend goes into such brochure



Also maybe information evening / video night for the less experienced / first timers who want to do it but haven before. Make sure the info evening is few weeks / manths ahead of the event so people can prepare them selves

[SPman]

and if I could find a suitable 125 cc two stroke, I'd have a go on that

Yamaha AS1/2/3?

[jellywrestler]

A simple chat with the Rusty Nuts team who've organised the 1000 miler for twenty something years and had very limited incidents should suffice mr Rastus cat

[Jantar]

... NZ is so small that long distance isn't even possible, You can eat breakfast, get on the bike,hit the end of the island and be back home for an evening fucking meal on the same day.....

I knew Speed Triples were quick, but 1800 km between breakfast and dinner? That is moving.

Oh! I see you mean the near end of the island. That one doesn't count as an endurance ride, and it only takes from lunch to dinner for the return trip.

[Mystic13]

To turn the tables around a bit. Should there be a info sheet avaliable for the riders? Especially the first timers who never done it before but who want to try? And what info would you recommend goes into such brochure



Also maybe information evening / video night for the less experienced / first timers who want to do it but haven before. Make sure the info evening is few weeks / manths ahead of the event so people can prepare them selves

What MarkW and Jantar applies.

Doing the Rusty Nuts Grand Challenge as a first timer you;

- read about others views on how to manage
- talk to others
- plan and usually over do it a little

My first time I got the gear about right and the main aims were keeping cold and wet out.

22.5 hours of riding with stops for gas and food.

The Rusty guys will tell you to be cautious in the first sector that seems to be where a lot of accidents happen.

Check out their site;


http://www.rustynuts.org.nz/

What I've learnt since means I'd carry the same gear. And if I need to sleep include a quick sleep stop.

My second year I arrived needing a long sleep and bailed out in the middle of the night. It's not an event you can enter sleep deprived.

There won't be much you can do to limit speeds. Except advise caution, advise don't do it, because the success of the event relies on people making it back home.

Fatigue needs to be addressed with food, liquids, and if needed sleep. A lot of riders ride in groups so that sorts some stuff as well.

Endurance events by their nature are going to push the limits of rider and machine.

I remember riding through the Desert Road around 5am with a giant snow cone building up on the windshield as it lightly snowed.

Great events to be involved in.

Crazy, but no where as crazy as swingers on sidecars.

[Ender EnZed]

If the organisers arent seen to be doing something proactive to 'support the safety and wellbeing of participants' then events like it will be shit down.
why can people not see that?

Are there really any issues with the way things are being done now though? I have no evidence either way but I thought long distance events in NZ had a pretty good reputation.

[FJRider]

I suspect that most people who participate in events like the TT2000 or the Grand Challenge have some idea about what they're getting themselves into.

There are some that believe 500 km's is a long distance ride. Proven riding experience, prior to the intended ride. (and length of time with the appropiate is not proof)

Check points that record time arrived/left incase they go missing. It gives starting points to start looking ...