Maori "Get Off Their Arse"

[Ocean1]

Does what a man makes for himself take into account what others have done for him in order to allow that man to make what he has for himself?

Newsflash: What real men make for themselves doesn't require help, they stand or fall alone.

Hint: If you can't point to product of your own making that's greater than that of any "help" you had then you don't qualify.

[wtf?]

mashman, my point really is that simple. Clearly you are not familiar with the ANALOGY I bastardised. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish..." Google it. And the meaning of analogy.

The system we have hands out fish. It does little to teach people to provide for themselves. THAT was my point. Not to set out to argue every fucking nuance of NZs fisheries that you choose to bring up.

[tri boy]

The best grader drivers on the council were bro's.
Had the meanist feeds at smoko time.

[mashman]

Newsflash: What real men make for themselves doesn't require help, they stand or fall alone.

Hint: If you can't point to product of your own making that's greater than that of any "help" you had then you don't qualify.

Do those who make products manufacture every single component themselves? That rules out 99.99999999999% of the so called self made men then?

[mashman]

mashman, my point really is that simple. Clearly you are not familiar with the ANALOGY I bastardised. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish..." Google it. And the meaning of analogy.

The system we have hands out fish. It does little to teach people to provide for themselves. THAT was my point. Not to set out to argue every fucking nuance of NZs fisheries that you choose to bring up.

I am familiar with it and knowing that people will accept that things are that simple given the world we live in and the shit that takes place in that world under the guise of such analogy being true without any shades of grey, is highly amusing. As I said, you need the bait, you need the fishing location and when you're "fighting" for position amongst 2 million+ providers it puts it into perspective for some sometimes the nuance matters, sometimes it's ignored entirely

[speights_bud]

I see people are bitching about everyone leaving for 'better jobs in oz', from all fields of work primary, secondary and tertiary.

People are also bitching about how 'there's no jobs here for us so we are on the dole'. Considering the amount of people living in south Auckland for example that immigrated here from other countries, why the fuck didn't they immigrate to where all the jobs are?? Probably because its too easy to sit on their arse here.

Maybe to help fix our situation we should send the unemployed to Aussie where the jobs are. As i understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) no Aussie citizenship = No Dole = Actually having to work for food?

There are a lot of Kiwi's making a good name for themselves over there doing all kinds of work, the Maori Boys have a good rep for being choice at scaffolding up Perth ways I'm told.

[superman]

The Treaty of Waitingi states they have a right to sovereignty as did the Declaration of Independence, and if we won't give them sovereignty then the least we can do is give them some guaranteed seats on the council and try to establish some sort of equal power.

Damn white supremacists on here who think there was some inherent right to colonisation are simply products of colonisation myths. That we somehow helped Maori by colonising, that we had an inherent/divine right to colonise due simply to technological or supposed moral advancement. That we were being benevolent by even giving them the option of a Treaty when we had a supposed right to simply exterminate them.

The amount of inherent racism still apparent when Maori should really be the governing body of this land is mind boggling.

[mashman]

I see people are bitching about everyone leaving for 'better jobs in oz', from all fields of work primary, secondary and tertiary.

People are also bitching about how 'there's no jobs here for us so we are on the dole'. Considering the amount of people living in south Auckland for example that immigrated here from other countries, why the fuck didn't they immigrate to where all the jobs are?? Probably because its too easy to sit on their arse here.

Maybe to help fix our situation we should send the unemployed to Aussie where the jobs are. As i understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) no Aussie citizenship = No Dole = Actually having to work for food?

There are a lot of Kiwi's making a good name for themselves over there doing all kinds of work, the Maori Boys have a good rep for being choice at scaffolding up Perth ways I'm told.

So you want full employment for the people of NZ? do you know the consequences of such a policy? If not, google is your friend... but I'm sure you'll be willing to pay $50 for a loaf or $3000 for a set of tyres.

[speights_bud]

So you want full employment for the people of NZ? do you know the consequences of such a policy? If not, google is your friend... but I'm sure you'll be willing to pay $50 for a loaf or $3000 for a set of tyres.

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

[mashman]

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

Fair enough, but maybe they're happy? All I'm suggesting is that that has consequences. If the bottom line is the economic benefit to the country and that economic benefit is keeping inflation down by having a percentage of the population unemployed, then no amount of bene bashing, or lazy bastard bashing, or leech bashing is going to help the economic "fact" that a percentage of your population NEED to be unemployed. It might be nice of we all took turns, but very few of us can afford it. To a large extent I agree with you, but it's not as easy as getting a job, especially when it's not in the country's best interest. These "facts" are relatively new to me, but they seem to be confirmed by economists across the globe, so I have no reason to doubt them. To that end I've gone from bene basher to oh fuck, perhaps they should be paid more and given a medal fr services unrecognised

[superman]

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

Why should someone be 'financially productive' to society, and why is this a goal to achieve?

Why not humanitarianly productive? Why should economics and capitalism dictate the 'appropriate behaviours' within a society?

I would say CEO's of many companies are very financially productive, but they in no way improve society. They simply capitalise upon a power/money position they hold. Should those who receive jobs or money from that company should be eternally grateful?

Not to mention all the top earners and their advanced tax avoidance techniques which would take far more money away from our government than the 'leachers' you talk about.

[mashman]

Why should someone be 'financially productive' to society, and why is this a goal to achieve?

Why not humanitarianly productive? Why should economics and capitalism dictate the 'appropriate behaviours' within a society?

I would say CEO's of many companies are very financially productive, but they in no way improve society. They simply capitalise upon a power/money position they hold. Should those who receive jobs or money from that company should be eternally grateful?

Not to mention all the top earners and their advanced tax avoidance techniques which would take far more money away from our government than the 'leachers' you talk about.

another can't bling again situation... WTF is going on here apparently you can't trade on human decency because we're all greedy . One of the things I've found (limited exposure) about polynesian/maori culture is that some, maybe the majority, dunno, have an affinity with the land that is not a case of owning it, but belonging to it. I'm sure there will be cries of hypocrisy there, but I can also see why they would want to own the land to protect it from whitey white and his smokeu drones. No doubt naive in some cases, but I'll take my chances given what whitey has shown me of his character thus far.

I wasn't born in the wrong era, I was born the wrong colour ... at least I'd be allowed to have a valid grievance then

[superman]

another can't bling again situation... WTF is going on here apparently you can't trade on human decency because we're all greedy . One of the things I've found (limited exposure) about polynesian/maori culture is that some, maybe the majority, dunno, have an affinity with the land that is not a case of owning it, but belonging to it. I'm sure there will be cries of hypocrisy there, but I can also see why they would want to own the land to protect it from whitey white and his smokeu drones. No doubt naive in some cases, but I'll take my chances given what whitey has shown me of his character thus far.

I wasn't born in the wrong era, I was born the wrong colour ... at least I'd be allowed to have a valid grievance then

Maori culture certainly pertains to belonging to the land rather than owning land (at least before and at the time of colonisation). Being born of the land, and going back to the land gave a sort of ancestral ownership to it, and for outsiders to become part of the land they'd have to marry into the tribe.

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

[scumdog]

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

On the other hand we have the situation down here where land returned to Ngai Tahu a short time ago has just been sold by them. (to a 'whitey'... )

[BoristheBiter]

Maori culture certainly pertains to belonging to the land rather than owning land (at least before and at the time of colonisation). Being born of the land, and going back to the land gave a sort of ancestral ownership to it, and for outsiders to become part of the land they'd have to marry into the tribe.

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

What a pile of PC, soft cock, bollocks.

The problem is the two copies of the treaty have different meanings and as we are under crown law the Maori interpretation can fuck right off.

The Maori had no written language when the English arrived so there was going to be some mistakes made when a copy was given to them.

And if they care so much about belonging to the land why do they keep selling it off if they get it back?
And why if they care so much about iwi does the payouts that they get from the crown never trickle down to the people?