New Ohlins gas cartridges

[wayne]

the rider has very litlle to do with result, best suspension wins ?

[Robert Taylor]

the rider has very litlle to do with result, best suspension wins ?

At that level its pretty obvious that most of the top riders are VERY good and they will pick what is best for them and where there is good backup. All four main players in the suspension battle are all on any given day excellent ( look at Alvaro Bautistas works Showa shod Honda ) but consistently you usually have one product at the forefront.
In Formula 1 and Indycar its mainly Penske and that company does some VERY clever things. If I wasnt selling Ohlins Penske is a product that Id very much favour.

[imdying]

Yes they do give discrete values and there is a softer high speed slope generally with Mark 2. But its not also about damping force values, there is another type of test that shows hysterisis. There is even less hysterisis with the Mark 2 model so therefore faster damping response.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at... if you could quantify that (say after 10 minutes at 5000 cycles per minute, the new design stays within 90% of it's base as opposed to only 85% for the previous version, and having the tools/graphs lets you back that up), then that's one hell of a no BS sales pitch.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at... if you could quantify that (say after 10 minutes at 5000 cycles per minute, the new design stays within 90% of it's base as opposed to only 85% for the previous version, and having the tools/graphs lets you back that up), then that's one hell of a no BS sales pitch.

We are going to do some very subjective back to back on dyno when we have time, stay posted.

[imdying]

We are going to do some very subjective back to back on dyno when we have time, stay posted.

Hell yeah, I love that stuff... the more hard data you can give, the more you can help your customers justify the continued expenditure (upgrades, and worth noting you trade previously sold Ohlins componentry, another plus) and beat down the naysayers 8)

[Robert Taylor]

Hell yeah, I love that stuff... the more hard data you can give, the more you can help your customers justify the continued expenditure (upgrades, and worth noting you trade previously sold Ohlins componentry, another plus) and beat down the naysayers 8)

Actually we did a Triumph 675 Daytona stock shock today. The internal spec with respect to rebound damping is in a word CRIMINAL. The silly thing is this bike has probably the best shock piston in it out of all 600cc class bikes. We revalved it 3 times and repeated dyno tests, we now have both compression and rebound damping curves oh so close to an Ohlins TTX shock so once reinstalled into the bike it will be a BOLT IN MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT.
It wont of course turn it into an Ohlins in all respects but at a very affordable price the customer will have excellent bang for buck. In spite of the cost of dyno runs this all up job will cost significantly less than had he purchased and had installed an aftermarket piston kit, and frankly the suggested settings with many of these kits arent always on the money. Set up skill and verification is always required, irrespective of what pistons you are working with.
The whole point is that with this equipment WE ARE NOT FLYING BLIND.
Of course there will always be naysayers and if you are predisposed to having the courage to openly say what you think ( and put your real name to it ) there will always be negativity.

[Edbear]

Why do OEM manufacturers get it so wrong?

[steveyb]

Why do OEM manufacturers get it so wrong?

May one assume you have not ridden on a Japanese motorway, or back road or a European autoroute/autobahn/UK motorway/B-road.
They are: smooth, v-slow, smooth/v-smooth/pretty good/slow.
Not much like NZ roads.

By the way, I hate all negativity. I wish all the negative people would take their negative feelings and anti this and anti that and bugger off. I hate them and all they stand for. They have nothing to offer anybody or anything and are simply trying to make themselves feel better by making others feel bad. NZ roads are all shit and covered in gravel and cowshit. They should build an autobahn right down the middle of the country but of course we won't have that because they are all too negative.

If that George Lawrence where to ride his M1 into the street and pull a wheelie and leave a big black line around the corner, I should say: "Oi, Lawrence, NOOOOO!!!! This is the close, it is not Stowe Corner!!!"

[Robert Taylor]

Why do OEM manufacturers get it so wrong?

Im not complaining and also I dont want the Government to spend any more money on roads!

But the reality is motorcycles ( and not only motorcycles ) are largely engineered ( de-engineered ! ) by accountants. As we have a high ratio of bumpy roads here in the shaky isles they challenge suspension compliance and control much moreso than in the ''first world'' ( or should I say becoming third world ) Northern European and North American countries. So we are extra attentive to those issues here whereas in those other aforementioned countries they get away with such shonky suspension moreso.

The Triumph 675 is one of the very worst examples of a terrible shock allied with a terrible and aggressive link ratio. I guess now there might a 675 owner or two irate that I have negatively maligned their stock suspension units! There is ( cynically ) nothing worse than having the temerity to pick fault with someones pride and joy! Ralph Nader did so in the 60s ( correctly so ) and got vilified by many, especially those with vested interests.

Of course many of these issues are fixable and were I in the market for a 600cc class bike Id seriously consider the Triumph being at the top of my list.

[Robert Taylor]

May one assume you have not ridden on a Japanese motorway, or back road or a European autoroute/autobahn/UK motorway/B-road.
They are: smooth, v-slow, smooth/v-smooth/pretty good/slow.
Not much like NZ roads.

By the way, I hate all negativity. I wish all the negative people would take their negative feelings and anti this and anti that and bugger off. I hate them and all they stand for. They have nothing to offer anybody or anything and are simply trying to make themselves feel better by making others feel bad. NZ roads are all shit and covered in gravel and cowshit. They should build an autobahn right down the middle of the country but of course we won't have that because they are all too negative.

If that George Lawrence where to ride his M1 into the street and pull a wheelie and leave a big black line around the corner, I should say: "Oi, Lawrence, NOOOOO!!!! This is the close, it is not Stowe Corner!!!"

I love your sentiments Steve, even though you need councelling for your questionable socialist sympathies.....

[Edbear]

I was thinking of maybe the worst example, the rotary damper on the TL. Do you find the same issues with the same brands in general or is each shock different regardless?

I guess I'm asking if it is a design or manufacturing issue. Is it like we found with Chinese jacks for example where the design is okay but the quality control in the factory was non-existent?

[Tony.OK]

May one assume you have not ridden on a Japanese motorway, or back road or a European autoroute/autobahn/UK motorway/B-road.
They are: smooth, v-slow, smooth/v-smooth/pretty good/slow.
Not much like NZ roads.

By the way, I hate all negativity. I wish all the negative people would take their negative feelings and anti this and anti that and bugger off. I hate them and all they stand for. They have nothing to offer anybody or anything and are simply trying to make themselves feel better by making others feel bad. NZ roads are all shit and covered in gravel and cowshit. They should build an autobahn right down the middle of the country but of course we won't have that because they are all too negative.

If that George Lawrence where to ride his M1 into the street and pull a wheelie and leave a big black line around the corner, I should say: "Oi, Lawrence, NOOOOO!!!! This is the close, it is not Stowe Corner!!!"

Crickey...............bad day at the office?

Actually we did a Triumph 675 Daytona stock shock today. The internal spec with respect to rebound damping is in a word CRIMINAL. The silly thing is this bike has probably the best shock piston in it out of all 600cc class bikes. We revalved it 3 times and repeated dyno tests, we now have both compression and rebound damping curves oh so close to an Ohlins TTX shock so once reinstalled into the bike it will be a BOLT IN MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT.
It wont of course turn it into an Ohlins in all respects but at a very affordable price the customer will have excellent bang for buck. In spite of the cost of dyno runs this all up job will cost significantly less than had he purchased and had installed an aftermarket piston kit, and frankly the suggested settings with many of these kits arent always on the money. Set up skill and verification is always required, irrespective of what pistons you are working with.
The whole point is that with this equipment WE ARE NOT FLYING BLIND.
Of course there will always be naysayers and if you are predisposed to having the courage to openly say what you think ( and put your real name to it ) there will always be negativity.

What sort of rough cost would someone be looking at to do a rear shock Robert? Worth picking up a cheap OEM spare and having one for road and one for track?

[Robert Taylor]

I was thinking of maybe the worst example, the rotary damper on the TL. Do you find the same issues with the same brands in general or is each shock different regardless?

I guess I'm asking if it is a design or manufacturing issue. Is it like we found with Chinese jacks for example where the design is okay but the quality control in the factory was non-existent?

In short, its all haphazard. But in a competitive environment where everyone is wanting a deal there are always lots of shortcuts. You only get what you pay for.

[Robert Taylor]

Crickey...............bad day at the office?


What sort of rough cost would someone be looking at to do a rear shock Robert? Worth picking up a cheap OEM spare and having one for road and one for track?

The problem is there will be a competitor or two reading this thread who wont have the intestinal fortitude to be on this site under than under a nom de plume. All jobs vary according to the time and parts required. For anything specific e-mail me robert@kss. net.nz But as I eluded the value / bang for buck is VERY real

[nzspokes]

Why do OEM manufacturers get it so wrong?

Funny you should say that, was thinking while doing Coro loop last weekend how good the suspension on my Bandit feels. Random thought.