Sports bike scum

[Muppet]

1) Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
A) actually, i call this land Aotearoa. and there were some people here before white fulla came with his "law" (legislation), who also called this land Aotearoa.
so deflate your ego and set aside your self righteousness for a moment and riddle me this:
if someone has not signed some document, (say, te tiriti o waitangi) and has not agreed to, consented to or voted for, the government to dictate their actions, then how is that government lawful? and is that people bound by that government's laws?

force? or do you have another answer?

2)billing the cops for your time? good lord you are full of shit
A) if you say so. but you should be mightily concerned that the cops don't actually make money, so they're just going to be giving me yours, for their fuckups. good system eh?

3)your attitude wreaks [sic] of that exact sentiment (fuck the police)
A) no. my attitude is exactly this: "if i'm not doing any harm, let me be. if you are not engaging with my to our mutual benefit, don't waste my fucking time." this applies to all people, i don't care what colour their gang's vest is.

4)so you failed to comply, and were detained - can you not see whats going on here? its a shame they didnt give you a kicking while you were in there, it might have knocked some sense into you. it is a crying shame that my tax dollars are being swallowed up to deal with morons like you.
A) i see exactly what's going on, i don't think you do though.
what would kicking me have achieved? and surely your tax dollars would have been much better served by the police letting me be and going on, to say, stop some crime...

5)so, how exactly do you think you won here? you were a dick and you got detained. the cops dont care. hell most of them would probably rather sit at a desk and do paperwork than be out on the streets dealing with people like you - remember, they are PAID to do the job, so its no skin off their nose at all.
A) i don't think you understand just how much paperwork i create. their short file on me is 30 odd pages of size 11 typeface, the last "incident" created a stack nearly a foot high. i don't mean filling in a few forms. i mean call a lawyer and think very carefully about what you put on paper to me. (all of this, with your precious tax dollars :'()

who's winning? why does someone need to win?
and then who loses in that contest? (and what's the contest?)

...if i can help one flaining robin unto it's nest again...
i "win" here because i) i'm not handing over money ii) the junior of the officers, who was actually quite reasonable, had her eyes opened to the bullshit. iii) the looks on this cunt's face.. seriously. it was priceless. i have a photo, i'll post it if you want. iv) despite this cunt hiding behind his cool "i am the law bow down and obey" bullshit, upon talking to him, he claimed to be iwi, and i set the cogs spinning in his head about the illegitimacy of the government and that he was enforcing the very "law" that has robbed our whakapapa, kaumatua and tipuna of their rights, lands, air, and food.
again, i opened his eyes to the bullshit.
v) now, i attempt to dislodge the ego-spanner that's jammed in your cogs. whether i win on this one or you lose... i shall not live in vain

6) ((pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.))
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?
A)with THEIR law, not mine.
and it IS NOT reasonable.
why should i have to "identify myself" if i) i haven't committed a crime ii) they have no reason to believe i have iii) there is no witness accusing me of such.???

as far as a "name" and "date of birth" go. i don't remember being born. i couldn't possibly attest to the time or place, or circumstance. the only evidence i have that i was born is that i'm alive.
so how can i state something if i have no knowledge of it?

and what is in a name...
okay, i'm called bob.
no? not good enough. you want a "full name" eh? and that ever important d.o.b
so maybe they actually want to link me to say... a person.
for whose benefit would they do that?

7)I think we have found a new contender for the "DB award for arrogance and stupidity".
A) i think this would be summed up brilliantly with:
"where you point the finger, there are three pointing back."
have a good think about the man in the mirror buddy, if this is your attitude/outlook/perspective on life.
it can be so much better.

and i pity the hell out of any kids you've had, or will have. what a sad way to bring a child up.

What a tosser.

[tbs]

you and Akzle tend to line up with the extremes.

How do you figure? I haven't expressed any thoughts on the actions of the Dallas Sherrif's department. All I did was ask a couple of questions and then have a go at knocking down the initial point that most of Akzle's reply to me was based on. Call it an elementary lesson in political philosophy. If your basic premise is bollocks then any argument based on it is also bollocks. I don't go in for trading personal insults, but I am curious to see if a couple of members with extreme views can put forward convincing arguments to support them.

[scumdog]

Azkle - the result of DangerBastard cross-breeding with skism.

[scumdog]

Been a while since I was at school, but I think that speed can be calculated over a distance travelled. This can be determined from a video.

Also can be used to prove that the cop had the correct speed, or put you in more shit...

Hmm, I can't see radars being biffed and replaced with video cameras to 'prove' speed in the near future...

And they would have to 'approved' cameras - not $20 Warehouse Specials

[duckonin]

dont stand under me man...

i reject the parliament because they're a defacto organisation who i don't see benefiting anyone. it has nothing to do with iwi.
i am citizen earth., so are you, so's everyone else.
i claim no rights over anyone else.
my rights are second only to the rights of the creator, call it god, allah, buddha, ganesh, mother earth, jah. call it whatever the fuck you want.
i have been created, as has everyone else. that puts me exactly equal with everyone else. not above, not below. i'm not claiming the right to tell anyone (let alone everyone) how to live.
there are several "laws" i am bound by (as is everyone else) the laws of physics, god's law, common law, natural law. these laws are laws because they are inescapable for everyone,
they're not written down, in fact they're hardly reflected in the legislation of the world governments today.

as outlined several times i dont live in that society. i may be in the land now called "new zealand" and i may live in somewhere that someone has claimed is a "district".
but boundaries only exist in the minds of small men. countries, borders, territory, it's all a bullshit game used to play men off against each other, create division and conflict where there need not be.

i am answerable to the omnipotent entity outlined in my first point. whatever that is. i am answerable to gravity.
i am answerable to myself. (personal responsibility)

i dont need a statute or "rule of law" to give me rights. i am born with rights. natural rights, god given rights. only if someone infringes against them (as the police are wont to do) is there a problem.
these are often called inalienable rights. they are somewhwat reflected in the magna carta, they were reflected in the intent of america's consititution.
they are rights which no man can lawfully or rightfully deprive me of without force.

IF i do harm to another man (it would be by accident, rather than design) then i become indebted to him, or, if i killed the bastard, his family.
i don't like to live in debt.

and no, i don't think the average blow is motivated enough, nor inclined to, revolt.
that's a shame though.

anyone care to have a crack at answering my questions?
isn't red rep so cool, you get to feel like you've had your little stab, and your opinion matters.
why not go vote about it. =D

We live in the year 2012 not 1840 or beyond. Try to move 'your brain' forward into the future. Incidentally, the 'law/cops' do not give a shit about how you look at the world ,for that matter nor do I.

[Akzle]

yes you are.

a shame your mother didnt swallow.

isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.

Akzle I think...

holy shit, that was well written.

"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."

enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.

i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?

i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.

i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.


"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."

i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.


"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."

how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?


I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.

i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.

yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?


"Your rights are not absolute."

what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?


"People are largely motivated by self interest."

this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?

and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)


"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."

hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)

law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?

and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.


"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"

see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.


"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"

i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.

my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?


"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."

of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)

the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.

you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.


"I agree with them."

i don't


"to then deliberately waste Police time"

i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.


why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?

if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?

if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?

Just as for the name, I recon there shouldnt be much problem in supplying your name to the police if you really dont have anything to fear or hide.

this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them

if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?

But Akzle doesn't have a name. He can't remember choosing it himself, he was only told that's what his name is. He is a child of the earth. That is all.

love it.

((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))

[Akzle]

We live in the year 2012 not 1840 or beyond. Try to move 'your brain' forward into the future. Incidentally, the 'law/cops' do not give a shit about how you look at the world ,for that matter nor do I.

cool story. unfortunately the law governing "police" (the armed constabulary act) was more solid in 1800s than that which exists today. their function was also more beneficial to society as a whole, being that: a) the public VOTED for their constables; b) they were paid BY THE PEOPLE; c) their job was not to gather revenue; d) they assisted people to settle their own problems; e) they dug wells and fixed roads and were generally useful about the place.
i would have happily been an armed constable in 1840 (with a .577 snider rifle ), i would not want to be a policy enforcement officer today.
and the people who commited crimes got sentenced to labor, which further benefitted society. (rather than costing them a f*ckload, as "remedial" prisons do)

i'm well aware that many people don't care how i look at the world, but it's not for me to dictate how they see the world, i don't see how or why they feel the need to dictate how i should.

and yes. here we are in the roman 2012 (armageddon anyone? age of enlightenment? aquarius? aztecs?)
fucken cool. so what exactly is your point?

[GrayWolf]

1) Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
A) actually, i call this land Aotearoa. and there were some people here before white fulla came with his "law" (legislation), who also called this land Aotearoa.
so deflate your ego and set aside your self righteousness for a moment and riddle me this:
if someone has not signed some document, (say, te tiriti o waitangi) and has not agreed to, consented to or voted for, the government to dictate their actions, then how is that government lawful? and is that people bound by that government's laws? force? or do you have another answer?

We can all quote 'history'.. if you also take into account the 'international rule of law for 'unowned land' in the 1800's'... A country that had no sign of cultivation (farming) was considered by said international law to be 'unowned land'.. Under that law, it was the British pre treaty document recognising the 'soveriegn tribes of Aotearoa' that gave the Maori legal ownership, so to speak. Had THAT document never been penned? This discussion about the 'white fulla' would not be happening. However to answer your question as to why a tribe who didnt sign should be held liable/responsible for the law of the land? Twoc simple words.... MAJORITY RULE. That is how the 'highly flawed' democratic process is performed.

3)your attitude wreaks [sic] of that exact sentiment (fuck the police)
A) no. my attitude is exactly this: "if i'm not doing any harm, let me be. if you are not engaging with my to our mutual benefit, don't waste my fucking time." this applies to all people, i don't care what colour their gang's vest is.
The other side of that coin IS: if you are not abiding within the rules of the majority? the majority sees YOU as not acting in a beneficial manner. Interestingly the Maori would use 'SHAMING' as a powerful tool to 'force compliance' within the tribal rules/laws. Now? It has fa less 'power' you can move from Invercargill to Auckland, and leave any 'misdeeds' behind, if you should so choose. So 'let me be' is a sentiment felt by many many people, just learn to play the game and its surprising how much laxity CAN be found within our system. if you think what you have here is unjust? As many Maori like to quote history as a proof? Look at people like Stalin he actually made Hitler look like a schoolboy for mass murder of any he saw as a dissident/undesirable. The fact you can even come to KB and freely speak your thoughts? Says volumes for the positives of this 'suppressive' society.

who's winning? why does someone need to win?
and then who loses in that contest? (and what's the contest?) Sadly many can only see a win situation, when they are being a dick, The fact they live IN a regeime that allows them to be a dick escapes them. Try many of the South American countries, or Spain, or Eastern European countries.. and see what happens when you act a dick towards their Police forces.


i "win" here because i) i'm not handing over money ii) the junior of the officers, who was actually quite reasonable, had her eyes opened to the bullshit. iii) the looks on this cunt's face.. seriously. it was priceless. i have a photo, i'll post it if you want. iv) despite this cunt hiding behind his cool "i am the law bow down and obey" bullshit, upon talking to him, he claimed to be iwi, and i set the cogs spinning in his head about the illegitimacy of the government and that he was enforcing the very "law" that has robbed our whakapapa, kaumatua and tipuna of their rights, lands, air, and food. As a foreigner here, I am highly appreciative of what this country has given me and as an interest I did read on the treaty, past history etc. As for an illegitimate govt? methinks you've been listening to tama, Ken maire, etc for too long. Yes there were many injustices done, and similar ones are being done today. The FACT you can argue these injustices, AND gain compense for them is due to the 'illegitimate regeime's laws. So as for the look on the guy's face over the bullshit? Are you sure it wasnt a look about the bullpaki he was listening to?
again, i opened his eyes to the bullshit.

6) ((pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.))
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?
A)with THEIR law, not mine.
and it IS NOT reasonable.
why should i have to "identify myself" if i) i haven't committed a crime ii) they have no reason to believe i have iii) there is no witness accusing me of such.???
Damn this is an old chestnut, simple really, those that cry wolf over being stopped for identity, are often the first ones to grizzle if they get robbed/attacked that the Police 'knew' said felon was in the area but didnt keep tabs on him/her. C'mon as i younger man in the UK, I woure the leather jacket, camo' pants, boots, beanie, beard of the typical 'biker' and also had the 'fuck you for stopping me for no reason attitude'... funny thing is? Now I dress 'normal'? and still do the same things I did then. Only time I get 'pulled', is on a breath test or traffic stop.

as far as a "name" and "date of birth" go. i don't remember being born. i couldn't possibly attest to the time or place, or circumstance. the only evidence i have that i was born is that i'm alive.
so how can i state something if i have no knowledge of it? C'mon even you dont really expect us to fall for that distorted arguement?

and what is in a name...
okay, i'm called bob.
no? not good enough. you want a "full name" eh? and that ever important d.o.b
so maybe they actually want to link me to say... a person. those very same records you dislike, carry the record of a person's offences etc, or non offending... I would picture the tirade you'd spew here if your life was impacted again with the police 'accepting' my name is bob smith on face value in the street and 'bob smith' turned out to be a burglar/murderer/rapist who 30 minutes later affected YOUR life
for whose benefit would they do that?
.

10 characters

[Muppet]

isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.


holy shit, that was well written.

"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."

enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.

i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?

i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.

i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.


"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."

i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.


"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."

how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?


I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.

i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.

yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?


"Your rights are not absolute."

what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?


"People are largely motivated by self interest."

this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?

and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)


"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."

hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)

law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?

and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.


"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"

see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.


"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"

i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.

my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?


"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."

of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)

the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.

you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.


"I agree with them."

i don't


"to then deliberately waste Police time"

i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.


why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?

if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?

if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?



this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them

if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?

love it.

((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))

My god you must be bored. Why don't you just give yourself a weird name like the Wizard of Christchurch and spend your whole life avoiding the 'system' and do fuck all. I think country folk would refer to you as 'the local eccentric'.

[Muppet]

Hmm, I can't see radars being biffed and replaced with video cameras to 'prove' speed in the near future...

And they would have to 'approved' cameras - not $20 Warehouse Specials

You're right of course scummy. Imagine turning up to a JP fixture with a Warehouse camera..."Yes your worships, Police will prove they used a cheap 'n' nasty camera made in China to prove the the defendant Mr Akzle was doing 200 km/h on his Monkey bike"

[Akzle]

"We can all quote 'history'.. if you also take into account the 'international rule of law for 'unowned land' in the 1800's'... A country that had no sign of cultivation (farming)..."

again this all comes down to "white guys law" -international law, or more likely admiralty law, is still white-guy controlling others. usually by deceit. it doesn't come from on high (god)
...even the christian ruse was used a system to control the peasanty and suppress the pagans (usually black) and shift the mindset from pagan beliefs (recognising earth mother, working with the world, generaly maternal/feminine) to christian ones (bow down before a man who has been bestowed with some authority (over your mortal soul?) masculine, authoritarian, paternal)
the end result is a fuck up. the solution is balance.

have a look at some old statute, the wording is (a lot more brief) but concise and to the point. for example look to the historic (english) legislation against "mischief" (which has the definition "to render a man incapable of fighting, ie breaking fingers or gouging eyes") it's really simple. don't do it.

cause harm = make remedy. end of. not pay fines to the courts or state... fix your fucking problem.

taxation and levies are of course another matter all together (and illegal, by some decree of some king at osme time or another)

asides from that, i'm only looking to the past to establish what i consider to be right, and has worked, and compare it to today and work out ho to move forward positively.


"MAJORITY RULE. That is how the 'highly flawed' democratic process is performed."


"Interestingly the Maori would use 'SHAMING' as a powerful tool to 'force compliance' within the tribal rules/laws."

i'm all up for this. tarring-featherings, pillories, tatooing people, castration in some cases, chopping off hands, public hangings... bring it on.
for someone who HAS COMMITTED HARM AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE AND MADE NO ATTEMPT AT REMEDY, i accept punishment as valid, and it should represent the crime.


"'let me be' is a sentiment felt by many many people, just learn to play the game and its surprising how much laxity CAN be found within our system."

i do, can. but that's asides the point. when our duly-elected-representative-socialist-government decides that all bikers have to wear pink arm bands all the time... then what.
it's a short march to the camps.

yes, one can scam the system, one can lay low an not bring attention to themselves (as i most often do) and one can smile politely as they bend over the barrel for the system. i choose not to.


"you think what you have here is unjust?... Try many of the South American countries, or Spain, or Eastern European countries.. and see what happens when you act a dick towards their Police forces."

whoopdee shit, someone has it worse than NZers. is that supposed to make me feel better about humanity? what are you doing to help those people? to elevate the plebians? control their governments? what are you doing about the "world-powers" that have knowingly or at least by acquiescence caused so much disparity and suffering the world over? what are you doing about the 4000. FOUR FUCKING THOUSAND. children that die every hour because they don't have enough to eat, while world-police are dropping billions in munitions, wasting the planet, consuming fucken everything. (and throwing out some tonnage of food DAILY that would probably feed africa for a month)

you know how much a billion is? it's 1, 000, 000, 000, 000 dollars. will you even handle a billion dollars over your lifetime? (google "us debt problem visualised, kleptocracy") that kind of money just doesn't fucking exist. it means nothing.

keep driving to work man. keep the fucking blinkers on. git yo money, pay yo tax. keep yo fucken head down cos goddamn you'd hate to have think beyond this good and just "society".
(the "society" that signed you, your wife, kids, parents, grandparents and probably grandkids up for 40, 000$ of debt EACH)

it starts at home mann. never mind "new zealand society" what about "world society"?


"As for an illegitimate govt? methinks you've been listening to tama, Ken maire, etc for too long."

the NZ government was not constitutionally formed. it does not, never did, have the consent of the people. (google: "constitutional timebomb, hidden mysteries")


"Yes there were many injustices done, and similar ones are being done today. The FACT you can argue these injustices..."

as above. why is that level of "injustice" acceptable to anyone??


"So as for the look on the guy's face over the bullshit? Are you sure it wasnt a look about the bullpaki he was listening to?"

he may have dismissed it, as you are trying to as bullshit, but the fact that he's thinking about it, as you are, is the end of my responsibility.
you believe differently to me, cool, you have an opinion, cool. you're standing up for your beliefs. cool.
just don't try and force your beliefs on me.
"religion is like a penis. i don't care if you have one, just don't try putting it down my throat."


"...if they get robbed/attacked that the Police 'knew' said felon was in the area but didnt keep tabs on him/her."

i really dont see how this makes sense. even in your head.
so the cops have the authority to randomly detain and question anyone assumed or known to have criminal intent....?
and if someone with criminal intent does identify themselves as such... shouldn't the cops be doing something else?


"'fuck you for stopping me for no reason attitude'... funny thing is? Now I dress 'normal'? and still do the same things I did then. Only time I get 'pulled', is on a breath test or traffic stop."

i don't consider either of those lawful either. again. they rely on the presumed guilt, and you have to submit your DNA to their jurisdiction to prove that you're not guilty. that's drag-netting. it's bad for the environment.
and i never have a "fuck you" attitude to them initially, if i develop one, it's entirely because of how they have acted and applies only to that cop, on that day.


"C'mon even you dont really expect us to fall for that distorted arguement?"

how is it distorted? you are asking me to swear as fact and truth, that the details on a certificate which i didn't have anything to do with making are correct?

i know what got recorded on my daugther's berth certificate. (delivered at home)
born at 11:58 (two, miniiiiiitss, to miiiiiidniiiight!)
but as to even the fact of that.... fuck. maybe she was actually born the day after? maybe she's a different star sign? maybe she's a day younger? maybe i forgot to set my clock back for daylight savings? i can't even attest to that as a fact, and i had a hand in it...

[Akzle]

My god you must be bored. Why don't you just give yourself a weird name like the Wizard of Christchurch and spend your whole avoiding the 'system' and do fuck all. I think country folk would refer to you as 'the local eccentric'.

i see you've read my master plan. ()

((but i don't live in christchurch!))

[unstuck]

i see you've read my master plan. ()

((but i don't live in christchurch!))

You could be the wizard of Oakleigh.

[GrayWolf]

i see you've read my master plan. ()

((but i don't live in christchurch!))

You could be the wizard of Oakleigh.

Hell no, Weve got the fluid Druid on Stewart Island, the Wizard of Chch, and we've had the Wizard of Oz......
There's only one name for this guy, the Wizard of Nod, by the time you've either read or listened to his rhetoric? ya fast asleep...

[Muppet]

i see you've read my master plan. ()

((but i don't live in christchurch!))

Well at least you have a sense of humour, can we talk bikes now?