Rider Coach
Really?Originally Posted by nzspokes
The Bandit 1200 I rode had terrable suspension..... Mind, I was 2 up at the time, and it was an import.... so who really knows the history.
Come to think of it, I didn't really look at any settings or even if you could adjust anything....
Was just a ride around the block (100 miles).
Forum whore
You are easily pleased then.
Pootler
I believe mine may not be stock.....
Rider Coach
That would explain it......
Forum whore
Innovative Moto Developments (aka Moto Academy NZ) are really pleased to welcome KSS onto the project as a development partner for our Moto 3 bike.
The first step was to examine the standard Showa shock absorber from a former Moto Academy riders own RS125 using the KSS Suspension dynomometer.
It was amazing to see how the shock performed, well, better to say, didn't perform.
The response curves were so far away from what should be acceptable it wasn't funny. This shock had been 'built' by a tuning firm in Japan and was set up for very high speed flowing circuits like Suzuka, but little good for us in NZ.
Yet, our rider had gone 1:14.1 around Manfeild on this shock and standard front forks.
This allowed Dennis at KSS to get elbows deep into the shock, rework the piston, rework the valving and rework the damping systems.
This was then re-dyno'd and the new responses were compared with the more optimal Ohlins curves. The slow speed response was close to the Ohlins curve, but the design simply does not allow the Showa to replicate the Ohlins in this regard, but Dennis got it close.
The high speed curve however, very clearly matched the Ohlins curve, hugely better than it was when they started.
Hopefully our rider will soon test out the new shock and see how it matches the fork mods we have done so we can decide on further optimisation. KSS will be able to offer these modifications to other RS125 owners without the budget for aftermarket suspension.
The suspension dyno is a pretty choice piece of kit. It allows rapid evaluation and modification of suspension in the workshop, so that KSS can actually see what the suspension is doing. Along with the rider feedback that has been previously provided about the suspension performance on the road or track, KSS can change it in the workshop in the right ways that they and the rider believe will improve performance.
One of the bikes that has seriously benefited from dyno work is the Triumph 675. KSS believe that the suspension system on the 675 is one of the better ones around, BUT, the internal settings are not good and seriously undermine the good design of the system. After using their suspension dyno, KSS is now able to reset the OEM 675 suspension to provide a seriously improved response.
The second part of the KSS/Innovative Moto Developments relationship is that KSS will build and develop a brand new Ohlins TTX36 shock absorber for our Moto 3 bike, we are calling the IMD 250. This shock will not be a standard TTX36 but will incorporate brand new technological developments that are not yet available on the general market but are being trialled on Superbikes here and overseas. We will also be developing a new damping system for the Showa RS125 front forks that is based on Ohlins technology, but also not available to the general market. KSS believe that this will provide improved handling for the RS125 and the IMD250, especially.
We look forward to developing this technology and firmly recommend KSS and its new development tools to all riders and racers.
Steve Bagshaw PhD
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments
Inflexion Scientific
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Ono Lennon.
"If you have never stared off into the distance then your life is a shame." Counting Crows
"The girls were in tight dresses, just like sweets in cellophane" Joe Jackson
125GP!!!
Damn that guy must be the man!
Forum whore
Moto 3??? Sweet, when do we get to see that???
Forum whore
When it's finished!!
Aiming for October. But Jamie R should have his one done pretty soon.
Strictly speaking they are not Moto 3, but GPMono, but Moto 3 sounds better. Moto 3 bikes strictly are not allowed to use MX engines, but hey, who's counting?
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Ono Lennon.
"If you have never stared off into the distance then your life is a shame." Counting Crows
"The girls were in tight dresses, just like sweets in cellophane" Joe Jackson
Buttered Chicken
He must have been chasing a cute guy.
Forum whore
How relevant are the electronic Ohlins units - are they predominantly a road unit, or are they the wave of the future for all bikes. The 1199S I was looking at a couple of weeks ago looked right weird, with wires sprouting out of the rear shock and the tops of the front forks......
“- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”
Forum whore
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ale/20993.html
Go on someone...buy one of these
Ta
Fucken hell, 50 horse power from a single cylinder 250! That is bloody spectacular and £13000 is a bargain.
Forum whore
More and more electronic controls ARE the future and bring it on! I will elaborate further in detail tonight
Forum whore
£35000 seems rather expensive....
Apparently Andrew Forward is running a young OZZY rider on a proper Moto3 bike. Id imagine the NSF
Forum whore
Much of what I am going to say I have stated in previous threads, but anyway here goes.
If we cite the example of the electronically assisted Ducati Mutistrada, Ohlins received an order for 5000 bike sets of suspension and thought ''thats a pretty good order''. Worldwide this model sold in such huge numbers and so quickly that in short order Ducati then ordered another 5000 sets!
So based on this one model and the march of progress there very definitely is a strong future and ever increasing presence for more and more electronic controls. This has relentlessly happened with all sorts of consumer goods, why should it be any different with motorcycles and their suspension units?
40 odd years ago we were dicking around with DC generators on motorcycles, they were a pain in the butt, needed constant maintenance and were unreliable. Now all the charging systems are all solid state and apart from the dodgiest Chinese stuff are largely maintenance free and reliable. THATS PROGRESS.
During that same period ignition systems were largely contact breaker points. Voltage output was often abysmal and struggled to ''light the fire''. Maintenance required was constant and costly. Ignition curves were crude and dictated by the crude technology of the day. Now ignition systems are solid state, the curves can be programmed wherever you want them, theres enough available voltage to run a small home and ( Chinese rubbish aside ) they are largely reliable and maintenance free. THATS PROGRESS
20 odd years ago and further back you turned up at a racetrack with a big box of needles and jets and spent all day fiddling with accursed flat slide carburetors that were sensitive to the number of clouds in the sky. Now you turn up with a laptop and interface cable. THATS PROGRESS
At street races we often witness a ludicrous situation of seeing a Harley with bone stock suspension horribly wobbling its way around the track, when it could be so much faster and stable with even a little amount spent on sorting it. THATS RIDICULOUS
Several years back Yamaha WSBK team turned up at Donington with electronically assisted TTX36 and began to demolish the opposition. The flow path and response range of the manual clickers is so wide on a twin tube design that it lends itself well to the addition of ( electronically controlled ) servomotors to vary the click position for any given circumstance on the track. THATS PROGRESS
How many of you have been to a track day and noted that if you wound in a long way the compression clickers on the front forks you would have much improved brake dive resistance and would therefore be able to brake later into a corner? But negatively you would lose edge grip through the corner. Similarly in the rear end if you wind out the rear rebound a long way you may gain exit grip and sidegrip but the negative would be that it would then top out too readily under hard braking. SO, SETTING CLICKERS MANUALLY IS A COMPROMISE AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. WHY ACCEPT COMPROMISE?
Imagine if you had suspension that automatically did all this for you, linked into myriad sensors, many of those already on modern bikes and just needing an interface. The technology is there and will slowly be introduced and constantly improved on targeted models. Just today we received an order for a BMW Adventure bike set and in the spring we will be testing with a trackday bike. THATS EXCITING
The Ohlins system that Yamaha WSBK team employed was in short order banned not so much because of the system itself but because of a fear of the Mechatronics technology that BMW might bring from its prior Formula 1 activities. But that could have been managed and in fact the end cost of the Ohlins stuff was by no means moonbeams if you factored in economy of scale. Electronic consumer goods have had a history of becoming more affordable as they get produced in larger numbers.
The Ohlins techs that you see in abundance at WSBK / MotoGP rounds would still have been revalving ( the valve shims are still there, this is Mechatronics, a marriage of the mechnical and electronic elements ) and would be harnessing their laptops further ( with an interface box and cable) to reset the parameters within which the automatic bleed adjusters worked . SO WHAT? Technicians at work making useful progress, its not all about the riders.
About 3-4 years back we did the ultimate pi..take in NZ road racing by turning up with a TTX equipped R6 with some mock electronic servomotors and leads that looked just like WSBK stuff. But the shock was still normal manual adjust as per everyone else. The bike was immediately faster than it had been previously because concurrent with that pi..take we had also built Ohlins NIX25 cartridges for it. It immediately attracted a LOT of interest and it was readily apparent that some competitors and team managers were getting their knickers in a twist about it. Craig Shirriffs colluded in this elaborate charade by walking down to another pit and asking ''what do you think of the new suspension Sam has got? What suspension? ....The electronic stuff'' Apparently the body language was ''interesting'' and visits to Sams pit were so numerous youd have thought there were naked cheerleaders co-habitating there. ( IF ONLY! )
Racing is supposed to improve the breed and has always been a testing and proving ground for new technology. Now because of the cavemen mentality of the regulators in MotoGP, WSBK and many national racing formulae its a perverse situation of more and more road bikes coming out with the technology and not being allowed to harness it. Was electronic ignition banned when it first appeared?
Note that worldwide the ''electronic'' Panignale has been selling really well
Late September I travel to Germany to attend a distributor conference at Ohlins tech centre / European distribution centre in the motorsport complex at the Nurburging. Then I travel on to Stockholm to their main factory for Mechatronics training. By that time we should also be equipped with the interface box, leads and programming software to service and tune the bikes in the market so fitted with this exciting suspension.
This is the future and it should be embraced and not vilified by those who are scared to embrace positive change.
Last edited by Robert Taylor; 12th July 2012 at 18:05. Reason: My initial self spell check failed, to a level that matched Craig Shirriffs normal standard of spelling.
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