Welfare reform bill passes into law

[tigertim20]

about time some changes were made.

Its all very well bitching about them poor poor people being forced off the benefits etc etc - but so fucking what? its designed to be a stop gap measure, not a career choice. People who GENUINELY want to be off the welfare and working arent going to be concerned as theyll be out there looking for work. The only ones who will be concerned will be the lazy cunts who think its their god given right to bludge for eternity.

The problem isnt so much that there isnt work, its that these fuckin idiots see a job a macdonalds, cleaning toilets, clearing tables at the mall food court etc etc as 'below them' instead of an opportunity to get a job, and show some fuckin self respect, integrity, and an opportunity to actually DO something to help themselves. I have several times taken jobs that I felt were below me, because I would rather EARN my money, I dont see why others cant do the same.

as for those who continue to breed like wild fuckin rabbits to stay on welfare - fuck them. Having too many kids is not an excuse to stay on welfare, its a good reason to take the kids away from them - if you cant feed your kids, you shouldnt have them, and bringing more into the world when you cant feed the ones you had without outside help just shows you to be a useless, brainless fuckin parent who shows no consideration for your childrens welfare - so no reason you should be trusted to care for them. Take the kids away, make the cunts work, return children when they can actually fund their own fucking sex life.

as for those who continue to find ways to 'slip through the cracks' - fuck them, let them starve to death, because their 'oh poor me I feel sad all the time so i cant work because I dont think I can handle a job because its below me wah wah wah fucking wahhh' sure is hell isnt do anything to help themselves, OR this country - so fuck em all.

[BoristheBiter]

Attachment 266642 how bout them oldies ,,,,burning through that money

Watch the pennies and save the dollars by all means , but this is vote rigging thats all

Stephen

Gee you just know what buttons to press.

Out of that graph I would like to know what taxes have been collected from the super group over their working life.

The dole is a drain on our funds and the super is a way of saying thanks for your hard work so if you haven't worked then you don't get super.
Like in the UK the more you have contributed the more you get.

Then we might see a change but while there are the bleeding heart's like Mash I won't hold my breath.

[Virago]

...The world was a different place 20 years ago, and the 20 years before that. Measuring people against your own yardstick eh. You ain't the only one who "did it hard". Not all of us use it as the measure of a man. Some of us remember what it was like, how hard it can really get and remember those around us doing exactly the same things. It does more harm than good, but by all means go ahead and perpetuate it, fucking people over because of a minority that won't do what you expect the to.

I measure no-one. I simply point out that choosing not to work for shite wages is not a lifestyle option. Each of us has the responsibility to self-support to the best of our ability.

Welfare payments are a privilege, not a right. Those who genuinely need welfare deserve support and respect. Those who use the welfare system as a life-long career of frugal indolence need to be weeded out of the system. Ruthlessly.

Bleat all you like about the rich and the IMF, and get all hysterical with nonsense about forced sterilisation. At the end of the day, you're simply clutching at straws.

[mashman]

waaaa waaaaa waaaaa they're doing no one any good and should be left to die.

Savage! So why not target the "useless" directly? And what's wrong with holding out for something better, something that you are trained for? What about the family's who claim benefits even though they have a job? Is that ok?

Then we might see a change but while there are the bleeding heart's like Mash I won't hold my breath.

Bleeding heart now is it? Create some decent jobs and pay some decent wages then... given the rhetoric that's what it's all about, yet it doesn't seem to be happening and if the wage gap statistics are to believed, it's going in the completely opposite direction... and you expect people to lap it up and just do as they're told? I see no reason why they should. I certainly wouldn't. Give me the power and I'll hammer this country into the ground quicker than the current bunch of PC pussies.

[mashman]

I measure no-one. I simply point out that choosing not to work for shite wages is not a lifestyle option. Each of us has the responsibility to self-support to the best of our ability.

Welfare payments are a privilege, not a right. Those who genuinely need welfare deserve support and respect. Those who use the welfare system as a life-long career of frugal indolence need to be weeded out of the system. Ruthlessly.

Bleat all you like about the rich and the IMF, and get all hysterical with nonsense about forced sterilisation. At the end of the day, you're simply clutching at straws.

I agree. Calling it a lifestyle choice and then disassociating that from people not being responsible for self-supporting isn't really the full picture is it? What if the so called bludging lifestylers are part of the black market and are actually working for a living, they're just not paying taxes? Would that make a difference?

Surely there's a better way than hammering all of them?

the sky is falling, there's no way in hell that we'll force people into work, that'd be like slavery... and there's plenty of folk on here who would be happy with forced sterilisation. @clutching at straws... aye, much better to just stick my head in the sand with you crowd eh the govt have got dis thang.

[Phantom Limb]

'Create' some decent jobs and 'pay some decent wages'.

What magic wand is supposed to achieve that?
The only way I can see to 'create' decent jobs is to offer tax breaks to businesses in order to promote industry, but those people who are anti employers and anti 'the top earners' fail to realize that these top earners are the business owners and fuel our industry.

It really makes me laugh when we see protesters demanding better wages and more decent jobs, yet in the next breath they're wanting harder taxation on businesses and business owners. Do they realize that they're shooting themselves in both feet? More taxation on the top end forces them to leave our little country in order to further their empires over seas. So when our industry dries up, we working class drones become royally screwed!

What is the government supposed to do to 'create' jobs, hire more government employees? Thus increasing the tax burden on the rest of us?

They tried this in the US, just look up the stats on the number of govt vs private employees, it's a scary read!

[BoristheBiter]

Bleeding heart now is it? Create some decent jobs and pay some decent wages then... given the rhetoric that's what it's all about, yet it doesn't seem to be happening and if the wage gap statistics are to believed, it's going in the completely opposite direction... and you expect people to lap it up and just do as they're told? I see no reason why they should. I certainly wouldn't. Give me the power and I'll hammer this country into the ground quicker than the current bunch of PC pussies.

I have a list and I'm working through it

So OK I give my staff a 30% pay rise so they are in line with Aussie companies.
So I now have to put the company charges up by 30% so now we are more expensive than others and lose work so there isn't the work that needs to be done so I have to lay off staff so they end up on the dole.

Yep good idea of economics you have there.......must take accountant and economist off the list.

[Paul in NZ]

I agree. Calling it a lifestyle choice and then disassociating that from people not being responsible for self-supporting isn't really the full picture is it? What if the so called bludging lifestylers are part of the black market and are actually working for a living, they're just not paying taxes? Would that make a difference?

Surely there's a better way than hammering all of them?

the sky is falling, there's no way in hell that we'll force people into work, that'd be like slavery... and there's plenty of folk on here who would be happy with forced sterilisation. @clutching at straws... aye, much better to just stick my head in the sand with you crowd eh the govt have got dis thang.

Sorry - I'm not following your argument.

If they are in the black economy and working for a living how are they being affected unless they are also claiming a benefit as well??? Thats a bit naughty isnt it? Not paying taxes? Well go for gold then - opt out by all means but don't expect me to support you. Income tax is a sort of social contract isnt it - I'll pay in when I'm earning and support you buy when it goes pear shaped for me you help me out.

I'd be interested in knowing what your solution is? Or indeed what you might think the problem is?

[Tigadee]

What about the family's who claim benefits even though they have a job? Is that ok?

Aren't there less of these than those who leech off the system/career beneficiaries though? I have a job but I would love to receive financial assistance because my wife is ill and cannot work, so we're only scratching by on one income. And she doesn't receive illness benefit because she'd never worked in NZ except for some internship during her uni years.

[mashman]

'Create' some decent jobs and 'pay some decent wages'.

What magic wand is supposed to achieve that?
The only way I can see to 'create' decent jobs is to offer tax breaks to businesses in order to promote industry, but those people who are anti employers and anti 'the top earners' fail to realize that these top earners are the business owners and fuel our industry.

It really makes me laugh when we see protesters demanding better wages and more decent jobs, yet in the next breath they're wanting harder taxation on businesses and business owners. Do they realize that they're shooting themselves in both feet? More taxation on the top end forces them to leave our little country in order to further their empires over seas. So when our industry dries up, we working class drones become royally screwed!

What is the government supposed to do to 'create' jobs, hire more government employees? Thus increasing the tax burden on the rest of us?

They tried this in the US, just look up the stats on the number of govt vs private employees, it's a scary read!

Businesses and individuals got tax breaks. Where's the stimulated economy? Where are the better paying jobs? Some people just refuse to accept that tax cuts do not automatically mean more jobs and higher pay aaaaaaaand as people keep mentioning and have done since day 1, it's the productive individuals of a country that make its economy. So tell me again how throwing people onto the dole Q works for the economy? As for the theory of people leaving the little country. If all they care about is how much profit they make, then it's highly unlikely that they'll be giving a shit about their staff, which means they end up shooting themselves and us in the foot and by default they are more than likely to be an even bigger drain on the economy than the bludger. Irrespective of outcome, the "working" class drones are screwed.

They do these things in the UK as well ya know, France too, Spain, Greece, Germany etc... and they seem to manage... until there's a financial crisis that is and then the "working" class drones are screwed as they have to bail out banks ... you can't make this shit up. In the grand scheme of things, career bludgers do less damage to the economy than big business and their tax evasion. After all, if they're evading taxes they have more money and could pay their staff better and create new jobs... but they don't. Go figure!

[mashman]

I have a list and I'm working through it

So OK I give my staff a 30% pay rise so they are in line with Aussie companies.
So I now have to put the company charges up by 30% so now we are more expensive than others and lose work so there isn't the work that needs to be done so I have to lay off staff so they end up on the dole.

Yep good idea of economics you have there.......must take accountant and economist off the list.

I'm not saying that every business can afford it ... anyways, what's wrong with extra staff instead of pay rises... unless you feel you have enough staff and yours are worth the extra that is.

[mashman]

Sorry - I'm not following your argument.

If they are in the black economy and working for a living how are they being affected unless they are also claiming a benefit as well??? Thats a bit naughty isnt it? Not paying taxes? Well go for gold then - opt out by all means but don't expect me to support you. Income tax is a sort of social contract isnt it - I'll pay in when I'm earning and support you buy when it goes pear shaped for me you help me out.

I'd be interested in knowing what your solution is? Or indeed what you might think the problem is?

The thing is, we know that that's exactly how it works for some, maybe most as they're generally quite open about how to get more for less. If that's the case, target them directly. It is, as you say, a bit naughty. But they use the police, maybe more than you or I and in a slightly different way amongst other services, and you;re saying that they don't have to opt in? Ok, picky picky... the "law" says, obviously I'm paraphrasing, that if you aren't in recognised taxable work that you are entitled to a benefit and my point is, is that if you don;t investigate the individual, you will never know. It's like spraying for flies, just firing out a feckload of bug killer doesn't mean you've nailed the problem... plus it may have poisoned next doors crop.

I'll have to ask permission from Boris first... but under the current circumstances there are probably many solutions, but I'd like to talk to a few people i.e. the career bludgers, before applying them... then I'll FULLY understand the problem in terms of people, money and jobs. However I have no doubt that there will be a fair portion of the career bludgers that are happy with their lifestyle. I'd rather not see them in jail incurring extra costs... which means a certain level of acceptance from Joe Public.

[SMOKEU]

The problem isnt so much that there isnt work, its that these fuckin idiots see a job a macdonalds, cleaning toilets, clearing tables at the mall food court etc etc as 'below them' instead of an opportunity to get a job, and show some fuckin self respect, integrity, and an opportunity to actually DO something to help themselves. I have several times taken jobs that I felt were below me, because I would rather EARN my money, I dont see why others cant do the same.

When I was on the unemployment benefit at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 I applied for over 50 jobs and didn't manage to get a single one. I had a tidy looking CV, no criminal convictions and a full clean 1F license, yet I only got 1 interview. The fact is that for people without the right skills or qualifications, there just aren't enough jobs to go around. I've got some big gaps in my CV as well so that doesn't help at all.

[mashman]

Aren't there less of these than those who leech off the system/career beneficiaries though? I have a job but I would love to receive financial assistance because my wife is ill and cannot work, so we're only scratching by on one income. And she doesn't receive illness benefit because she'd never worked in NZ except for some internship during her uni years.

I wish I knew for certain, but I reckon there are more family's ducking than there are out and out leeches (let's call it 50/50), after all we're not dumb and info is freely available on how to minimise ones tax obligation... the advice is on the internetz most days.

Hope yer missus gets better Tigadee . Vote me in, I'll ban the fuck out of money and it won't be a worry for you or your Wife... you can just focus on her getting better.

[mashman]

When I was on the unemployment benefit at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 I applied for over 50 jobs and didn't manage to get a single one. I had a tidy looking CV, no criminal convictions and a full clean 1F license, yet I only got 1 interview. The fact is that for people without the right skills or qualifications, there just aren't enough jobs to go around. I've got some big gaps in my CV as well so that doesn't help at all.

that's not good enough fucktard... next time stick a brush up yer arse and clean the streets whilst yer job hunting... amateur