Is bad driving compulsory?

**James Deuce** · 29th July 2012, 09:13

I didn't suggest it was limited to four wheels. I said road users. I said "that type of driving", implying road user behaviour for all road users. It isn't a judgment call to ride or drive on the wrong side of the road on a mountain or hill road with poor sight lines. It's just dumb. There is no mitigating circumstance that allows for the behaviour in Geoff's photos. None. There's no depth of field issues in that series of photos. The driver is clearly to a significant percentage on the wrong side of the road approaching blind bends.

**Bass** · 29th July 2012, 09:53

Originally Posted by James Deuce

I didn't suggest it was limited to four wheels. I said road users.

Quite right - I was simply pointing out that bikers are guilty of it too, since the tenor of the whole thread implied it was a 4 wheel problem

Originally Posted by James Deuce

There is no mitigating circumstance that allows for the behaviour in Geoff's photos. None. There's no depth of field issues in that series of photos. The driver is clearly to a significant percentage on the wrong side of the road approaching blind bends.

It may well be that you are correct. However, it is impossible to tell from simply looking at a photo whether there is any field depth distortion or not. I have simply hundreds of photos that are apparently well out of proportion but unless you were there, you wouldn't know. Further, the photos don't show with any certainty, how far around the corner, the other driver can see.
We may indeed be looking at a really crap piece of driving, but the photos alone wouldn't convict.

**James Deuce** · 29th July 2012, 11:10

Have you looked at the photos in the first post? How can you even suggest that there is any distortion or depth of field issues. He's on the wrong side of the road. I'm not discussing your photo collection. This guy needs to be sacked and charged.

**nzspokes** · 29th July 2012, 11:36

Originally Posted by Road kill

Ok that may of been a bit OTT,but The whole tone of your threads do defend the guy.

Fair enough. Not at all defending him. As ive said in previous posts he should be dealt with by the police.

**Bass** · 29th July 2012, 11:42

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Have you looked at the photos in the first post?

Have a look at photos 2 and 3. It appears that the camera car has caught up to the ute from #2 to #3 and that the ute is closer to the corner. Now refer to the drainpipe on the left hand side of the road and the white line lines between the 2 vehicles. I believe photo 3 is an enlargement of photo 2, not a separate photo at all. Perhaps Geoff can confirm or refute?
Either way, I doubt we will ever agree.
I'm still not defending this either, especially if as Geoff stated that he overtook in this situation. That leaves no possibility of a return to the correct side of the road and is indefensible.

**nzspokes** · 29th July 2012, 11:46

Originally Posted by Bass

Have a look at photos 2 and 3. It appears that the camera car has caught up to the ute from #2 to #3 and that the ute is closer to the corner. Now refer to the drainpipe on the left hand side of the road and the white line lines between the 2 vehicles. I believe photo 3 is an enlargement of photo 2, not a separate photo at all. Perhaps Geoff can confirm or refute?
Either way, I doubt we will ever agree.

Disagree, hes clearly on the other side of the road. No matter how far ahead he can see, he shouldnt be there.

**FJRider** · 29th July 2012, 11:53

And the following distances of ALL the vehicles seem typical of Auckland traffic. If somebody coming the other way was cutting the corners ... instant four car pile-up ... at the very least.

**caseye** · 29th July 2012, 11:54

What he said!(Spokes that is) About the Utes position on the road and that he/she should NOT be THERE! come on I know what you are saying and 9 times out of ten I'd agree with you. But when anyone can see that a vehicle is for all intents and purposes completely on the wrong side of the road on/approaching a blind corner experience tells us that this is going to hurt.
By the way, unless signage or yellows exit to say otherwise it is not actually an offence to use/drive on the other side of the road.
Having said that, I stand by all I have said previously that in this case the law needs to be involved and his employment (if it was me would be immediately and irrevocably withdrawn) no question.
Even with all of your years in middle management and experience of disputes resolutions could you deduce anything other than the FACT that he's on completely the wrong side of the road.
In a sign written company vehicle in a winding twisting road where most if not all corners are blind.

**BMWST?** · 29th July 2012, 11:57

Originally Posted by caseye

I can't recall a time I crossed a centre line without knowing I was doing it and doing it safely.

this is the crux of it...cutting corners per se is in the same realm as overtaking.It is not automatically wrong.I will cut a corner using the same desicions as an overtaking manouvre,its not an automatic thing for me

**FJRider** · 29th July 2012, 12:05

Originally Posted by caseye

By the way, unless signage or yellows exit to say otherwise it is not actually an offence to use/drive on the other side of the road.

Failing to keep left covers it. Unless you are overtaking, with a hundred meters of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... yes it IS an offence.

Clearly ... overtaking was not the intention of any of the vehicles ... nor was there a hundred meters of clear visibility.

**george formby** · 29th July 2012, 12:11

Originally Posted by BMWST?

this is the crux of it...cutting corners per se is in the same realm as overtaking.It is not automatically wrong.I will cut a corner using the same desicions as an overtaking manouvre,its not an automatic thing for me

There in lies the rub. I think a lot of drivers / riders would say the same thing but for most it becomes a thoughtless habit.

I see the same thing on a daily basis up here, people cut the turn into junctions, cut corners, straighten out a series of bends etc. Unfortunately they are often the drivers who are most easily distracted, by other occupants, the stereo, the dog, the view etc. They spend too much time not looking at the road, when that combines with a lazy driving habit you get an accident situation.

I'm not pillorying you BMWST, I'm sure you are a safe, aware & considerate rider but most drivers are habitual. And they are not good habits.

**bluninja** · 29th July 2012, 12:30

Originally Posted by FJRider

Failing to keep left covers it. Unless you are overtaking, with a hundred meters of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... yes it IS an offence.

Clearly ... overtaking was not the intention of any of the vehicles ... nor was there a hundred meters of clear visibility.

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway

Seems to fly in the face of face of safe riding driving practice for left hand bends and lets forget about 'offisding' as taught to police and advanced dfrivers.
I was once saved by offsiding when a 4x4 straight lined a bend. Got to see him early enough to make a judgement call to stop far right so that he couldn't collect me when he 'kissed' the inside verge where I would have been if staying left.

Note to self ...ignore stupid laws that make me unsafe as a rider....would hate to have someone overtaking me round a bend just cos I'm far over to the left as is practicable and thus riding slower as I can't see very far ahead.

**BMWST?** · 29th July 2012, 12:39

Originally Posted by bluninja

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway

Seems to fly in the face of face of safe riding driving practice for left hand bends and lets forget about 'offisding' as taught to police and advanced dfrivers.
I was once saved by offsiding when a 4x4 straight lined a bend. Got to see him early enough to make a judgement call to stop far right so that he couldn't collect me when he 'kissed' the inside verge where I would have been if staying left.

Note to self ...ignore stupid laws that make me unsafe as a rider....would hate to have someone overtaking me round a bend just cos I'm far over to the left as is practicable and thus riding slower as I can't see very far ahead.

another factor,sometimes positioning yourself to the right of centre does give you a better forward view

**bluninja** · 29th July 2012, 12:51

Agreed, like offsiding, you need to be able to go to the right of centre safely and have enough visibility that you can return to your own side safely (or stay parked on the other side...not recommended for the heart).