American gun mania

[jasonu]

Was in the greasys shop this evening, waiting for the weekly roast. ( I cook on pay nights), and read an editorial in an American Gun magazine.

The emphasis was on the number of Police departments across America that were being closed down, and the hundreds of policemen that have been laid off as the economy takes a dive.

Basiclly, it said that with far fewer police on the streets, and the increase in 'crazies' roaming the streets, it was more important than ever that Joe Lunchbox, ( apparently, not a crazy), carried a weapon, on himself, in the car and home to defend him and his family.

I guess with this sort of hysteria being bandied about by the gun lobby, that the 2nd Admendment wont be re-written any time soon.

Dunno who wrote that or where they come from but that is the first time I have heard anything like that. Some cop shops are doing some slight cutbacks like not immediately replaceing someone who leaves/quits/retires but that is about it (around here anyway).

[caseye]

[QUOTE=Tigadee;1130368415]So a sub-compact or compact pistol or revolver with poor sights and terrible range and accuracy for an off-duty weapon?

You miss the point, me thinks.
An off duty American Police/Service man/woman does know how to use a weapon, particularly if they have their own.An most do.
Small with poor sights range and accuracy, all go out the window if in the hands of a proficient user.
Course, calibre becomes important if you are deliberately shooting at a bullet proof vest, not a head or groin.
Again though, don't be fooled by the magic of Hollywood.
Bullets do take you off your feet if you are hit centre mass, so a good solid hit will stop the offender using his own weapon at least long enough to either disarm or better still eliminate the threat completely as long as of course the threat is still holding a weapon.
We don't have many here that do use weapons on a regular basis but most Police Officers in the States do use weapons far more often ( even if only at training) than any of our guys and girls.
Once again too, we forget that many US citizens have permits to carry and regularly use their weapons on ranges and do become quite proficient in their use.
Living here and not knowing for sure what happened and who was there, makes most of what we think, say or do about this crime nothing more than conjecture.
Perhaps it was lucky that no one was carrying and drew their weapon, perhaps if someone had, the guy might have been prevented from harming anyone.
See, conjecture.
Personal opinion aside in the States much as is happening here ordinary people are beginning to take action for themselves and are no longer satisfied with, call the Police and wait.
Many don't have that luxury and them or their loved ones get terribly hurt, either way.
So if we take all the guns off our law abiding, licensed, vetted, heavily financially penalised firearms holders here or anywhere else, what is going to happen?
Are firearms offences going to stop over night? No.
Do criminals who have guns, have licenses? No!
Would they pay for their licence application, the vetting, the physical checks on themselves and their properties for suitability to own operate and store firearms? No.
Do they care what the law says or does or what law abiding people think of them having firearms? No.
So what is making laws that only actually affect licensed holders going to do to them? Um, Nothing!

Govt's favourite way of making things go away. Tax IT!

Shit that didn't take long.
So here we are, as motorcyclists we're being attacked in exactly the same was as licensed firearms users are, at least in the States they actually have a group( National Rifle Association) who can and do lobby for them and their rights.
What do we have?
A bunch of simpering pansies who won't even raise their middle finger to Govt in case the taxes go up again, pussies the lot of ya!.
Gun control, is being able to hit your target!

[SMOKEU]

So if we take all the guns off our law abiding, licensed, vetted, heavily financially penalised firearms holders here or anywhere else, what is going to happen?
Are firearms offences going to stop over night? No.
Do criminals who have guns, have licenses? No!

The government in South Africa tried exactly that, and all that happened is that responsible people found it extremely difficult to enjoy their hobby legally, but the criminals kept on killing at more or less the same rate as before.

[Tigadee]

I can accept that an off-duty police officer or service personnel may be able to handle his/her weapon proficiently, but there're still heaps of factors to take into account - physical, psychological, environmental, etc. Only an expert on such scenarios can tell us for sure the likelihood of success on being able to take out the gunman.

I'm more concerned if a gung-ho hero wannabe whipped out his gun and started a running battle which may end up getting me killed, never mind himself!

[Akzle]

So a sub-compact or compact pistol or revolver with poor sights and terrible range and accuracy for an off-duty weapon?

you clearly missed the bit where i said FOURTY-FOUR MAGNUM. so there it is. in caps.

...have a group( National Rifle Association) who can and do lobby for them and their rights.

...Gun control, is being able to hit your target!

yeah. the average pistol shooter puts a 400-600 rounds down range every month. FWIW the NZ police only have about 60 rounds/year paid for. (by you, taxees)
many can shoot proficiently from the hip (pistol shooters, not police). check out any 3 gun competetion, or any pistol club, for just how snazzilly these people can flick lead.

and +1, while a 9 or a 38 might not have "killin' power" against an armoured target, 350ft/lbs, applied to a spot the diameter of your thumb, has a bit of "fall down, fukkah" to it.

what we have in NZ?
we do have an NRA, also COLFO, and NZDA.
personally vote colfo as they have more of a grasp on sensible legislation rather than "hunters rights" "game animal council" and "1080 waaaaaaaaaaaaa" than the NZDA. i don't know what our NRA do.. but i never hear about them.

[Tigadee]

you clearly missed hte bit where i said FOURTY-FOUR MAGNUM. so there it is. in caps.

Right, right... So you think you can achieve a kill shot with a .44 in that chaotic situation. For the sake of the innocents around you, I certainly hope you're as capable as you believe.

[scumdog]

you clearly missed the bit where i said FOURTY-FOUR MAGNUM. so there it is. in caps.



and +1, while a 9 or a 38 might not have "killin' power" against an armoured target, 350ft/lbs, applied to a spot the diameter of your thumb, has a bit of "fall down, fukkah" to it.


[/COLOR]

I've seen a video of a guy wearing body armour (that he markets) shooting himself in the chest with a 44mag, didn't seem to phase him too much.

(Mind you, he cheated a tad by putting a phone book between the armour and his chest to spread the load and stop the bruising, what a pussy...)

I suspect the impact would be equal to a hard punch.

[caseye]

Hate to say it scummy but this time ol Akzle is closer to it. Even a tiny little old .38 snub nose fired from closeish range will knock a full grown adult on their arse. Course that's if they was wearing a bullet proof vest without a Phone book ( Phew, US size phone book????) in front of it.
Tig, you are not alone and anyone who does draw down had better be good enough or more people are going to get hurt.
Butt, it has happened in the past and the perpetrators have ended up dead and ordinary citizens have been hailed as life saving heroes, so who's right?
NZ NRA does exist but mostly ineffectual as is NZDA when it comes to govt lobbying, COLFO is still pretty quiet but getting there and representing more of the actual shooters in NZ.
3 Guns are bloody good sport and you get very good, quick, if you practice enough.

[Akzle]

I've seen a video of a guy wearing body armour (that he markets) shooting himself in the chest with a 44mag, didn't seem to phase him too much.

was that at the "sorry we can't afford bullets, here's a video" cop academy?

[Tigadee]

Butt, it has happened in the past and the perpetrators have ended up dead and ordinary citizens have been hailed as life saving heroes, so who's right?

Back to topic:
I'm happy to have my concerns proven wrong if the likelihood of success would outweigh the likelihood of failure in situations such as what happened in Aurora, Colorado if one or more armed citizens had been present... not that I'm anybody whose opinions matter much anyway

[caseye]

Tig, there are enough people out there who will put you down for nothing without doing it yourself, it matters,K.

[scumdog]

was that at the "sorry we can't afford bullets, here's a video" cop academy?

Uh, maintaining more decorum than Akzle here: No, it was a few years ago - no involvement with any 'cop academy' (wtf are they?).

And it was demonstarted to be full loads being used.

Think about it - if the impact of a bullet hitting somebody really could sit them on their arse then the recoil of the gun being used would very likely do the same to the shooter using it...

[Akzle]

Think about it - if the impact of a bullet hitting somebody really could sit them on their arse then the recoil of the gun being used would very likely do the same to the shooter using it...

i didn't realise you were a yank. it explains a bit though. new zealand cops don't get much boolitts. the zing was lost, obviously, in you being a yank cop.

a 'gun' focuses an explosion in one direction.
it usually weighs somewhere in the order of 1/2-3 kilograms, give or take.
a projectile typically weighs 40-600 grains. dont ask me what the conversion of that is. it's miniscule.

i'm not sure if this prick had been shot before, or was on drugs. but for the average joe in the average bullet proof vest, i reckon a 44 will knock the wind out of em, and sit em down in a short hurry.
plus. they don't call 'em "peacemakers" for nothing

[Kickaha]

i didn't realise you were a yank. it explains a bit though. new zealand cops don't get much boolitts. the zing was lost, obviously, in you being a yank cop.

a 'gun' focuses an explosion in one direction.
it usually weighs somewhere in the order of 1/2-3 kilograms, give or take.
a projectile typically weighs 40-600 grains. dont ask me what the conversion of that is. it's miniscule.

i'm not sure if this prick had been shot before, or was on drugs. but for the average joe in the average bullet proof vest, i reckon a 44 will knock the wind out of em, and sit em down in a short hurry.
plus. they don't call 'em "peacemakers" for nothing

Yeah Scummy you stupid Merkin, what would you know





Obviously all faked or maybe they just need to use a biger gun

[Road kill]

i didn't realise you were a yank. it explains a bit though. new zealand cops don't get much boolitts. the zing was lost, obviously, in you being a yank cop.

a 'gun' focuses an explosion in one direction.
it usually weighs somewhere in the order of 1/2-3 kilograms, give or take.
a projectile typically weighs 40-600 grains. dont ask me what the conversion of that is. it's miniscule.

i'm not sure if this prick had been shot before, or was on drugs. but for the average joe in the average bullet proof vest, i reckon a 44 will knock the wind out of em, and sit em down in a short hurry.
plus. they don't call 'em "peacemakers" for nothing

The .44 mag with factory standard loads generates 18.5 foot pounds of recoil.
Hold that sucker in one hand an pull the trigger and your going to get some variety in your sex life,,when your forced to change hands for a week.
I have both .38 and .44 mag rounds in my collection,,I think both come in around 80-100g.
Certainly nowhere near .600g.