MotoGP 2012

[pritch]

Eh... still just seems like the rumour mill churning away. (snip)
I'll believe it when it's official.

20/20 foresight

[Drew]

Ummmm...no. The best riders in the world race GP bikes. The ones that can't hack it there end up racing other also rans in Superbikes. Very talanted also rans. But also rans none the less.

The piss sprayers were meant to be us bro. He failed to use the sarcasm font, so I missed it initially too.

By the way, you really think there is no one better in the world than the guys who managed to get seats in GP? You, as all racers and people eventually have to accept, there is ALWAYS someone better. Oportunity is just pretty fuckin hard to come by, and I bet there have been lots of superbike riders who could have run well in MotoGP.

[puddytat]

Theres Leguna on the Telly at 3pm on TV1.....
http://www.bahistv.tk/p/watch-live-other-online.html will have the superbikes on no doubt....just checked it is. Starts about 9pmish I fink

[Crasherfromwayback]

The piss sprayers were meant to be us bro. He failed to use the sarcasm font, so I missed it initially too.

By the way, you really think there is no one better in the world than the guys who managed to get seats in GP? You, as all racers and people eventually have to accept, there is ALWAYS someone better. Oportunity is just pretty fuckin hard to come by, and I bet there have been lots of superbike riders who could have run well in MotoGP.

Name a few. Cream rises to the top every time mate. Take Ben Spies for example. The only guy good enough to beat Matt Mladin on a reg basis. Goes to world supers. First year (hates travelling), unknown tracks,very different to the ones he's so far raced on. Kicks serious ass.

Won how many GP races?...on what has to be THE best all round package out there. Melandri was fucking good. Won quite a few races. But once the Ducati spat him out he was fucked. And Max is past his best. Checa? You tell me? When you're THE best superbike racer in the world the doors of GP racing open 99% of the time. To win there you've gotta be the best in the world. World Superbike and GP is a total different playing field mate.

[Drew]

Name a few. Cream rises to the top every time mate. Take Ben Spies for example. The only guy good enough to beat Matt Mladin on a reg basis. Goes to world supers. First year (hates travelling), unknown tracks,very different to the ones he's so far raced on. Kicks serious ass.

Won how many GP races?...on what has to be THE best all round package out there. Melandri was fucking good. Won quite a few races. But once the Ducati spat him out he was fucked. And Max is past his best. Checa? You tell me? When you're THE best superbike racer in the world the doors of GP racing open 99% of the time. To win there you've gotta be the best in the world. World Superbike and GP is a total different playing field mate.

Yeah, nobody from superbikes has done it, but I think it will happen sooner or later. There's a different lifestyle in each, the cultures are not really interchangeable. GP riders usually follow the big show round for at least 3 or 4 years, and some for twice that. Superbike is right place right time a lot of the time.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, nobody from superbikes has done it, but I think it will happen sooner or later. There's a different lifestyle in each, the cultures are not really interchangeable. GP riders usually follow the big show round for at least 3 or 4 years, and some for twice that. Superbike is right place right time a lot of the time.

Yeah they have. But that wasn't my point. Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson and Revvin Kevin all came from superbikes. Not SBK as such...but Superbike backrounds. My point is though...they guys in world superbikes aren't at the same level as the top guys in Moto GP. They'd be there if they were.

[Cleve]

Yeah they have. But that wasn't my point. Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson and Revvin Kevin all came from superbikes. Not SBK as such...but Superbike backrounds. My point is though...they guys in world superbikes aren't at the same level as the top guys in Moto GP. They'd be there if they were.

Absolutely correct.

[SS90]

Both Stoner and Pedrosa have recently separately highlighted the fact that themselves and Lorenzo have pretty much grown up and matured together since 1996, when they where just teenagers.

So it would stand to reason that in the decade and a half since, there would have been an equal amount of suitable replacements born, and trained.

But logically for every pimple popping teen that has the chance to make it, the are thousands more that never got the chance, just by virtue of the fact that riders, unfortunately are chosen by
Not only skill but where they are from (Always having to have a Spanish rider in Repsol for example, or, Nicky Hayden in Ducati, as the USis their biggest market)

As we have started to see more German Money (Gerneralli Insurance sponsor not only Ducati, but successive German MotoGP rounds), and now with Audi "the real Lord of the rings" shoving their boat in the water so to speak, I am sure that we will see more German riders on the grid.

We already see it with KTM having a German rider, (for Moto3) when there are possibly better, cheaper riders to use, but their marketing is geared towards improving their dwindling domestic market (by domestic, I mean Austria and Germany), And they wont achieve that if they have a rider with
no appeal at all to this market (which is why Hayden is on the Ducati for at least one more year
, as the US market is so important to Ducati, and if you put Dani Pedrossa on a Ducati, along side, say Cal Cruthlow, you wont give the Yanks much to cheer about, which will effect sales. Simple.

Simply by virtue of place of birth, some riders with real ability never get the chance to access the experience they require to be able to make it in MotoGP.

New Zealand riders are in this category...... How would having a NZ MotoGP champion for Ducati help US sales? Sweet FA I would suggest, which is what makes it so hard for Kiwi riders to gain the experience needed to make that massive step.

[Crasherfromwayback]

New Zealand riders are in this category...... How would having a NZ MotoGP champion for Ducati help US sales? Sweet FA I would suggest, which is what makes it so hard for Kiwi riders to gain the experience needed to make that massive step.

The difference being..if a Kiwi stormed onto the world stage a-la Ben Spies, and wasted all and sundry, they'd have no choice but to sign you up. Then if you do the same in GP's (Stoner from Australia anyone?)...they once again have no choice if they actually want to win.

[SS90]

The difference being..if a Kiwi stormed onto the world stage a-la Ben Spies, and wasted all and sundry, they'd have no choice but to sign you up. Then if you do the same in GP's (Stoner from Australia anyone?)...they once again have no choice if they actually want to win.

Quite right, however, Spies has won sweet FA in MotoGP, and Stoner,Lorenzo and Pedrosa where "lucky" enough to be spoon fed high end experience from an early age.... When was the last time a New Zealand champion racer (any discipline) emerged from, say...Otara?
I am of the opinion that going by the level of high risk, Devil may care, win at all costs attitudes in this and many other places in Kiwiland, the concept of piloting a bike around Imola would be less risk and higher reward that many other options.

[5150]

I remember back in the early 2000's, Aaron Slight said (after his retirement) that chances of a Kiwi rider in SBK or Moto GP will be slim, in the sense that even tho we have shit loads of talent here, unless the rider brings in some serious sponsorship money, most teams would not be interested. And since the NZ motorcycle market is very small comparing to say Italy, Spain etc, the likelyhood of a NZ rider securing sponsorship from a major motorcycle related industry is very slim. They will more likely give their money to an Italian, Spanish or even American rider. His words, "It's a sad fact of sport where sponsorship money counts more then talent". If I remember correctly, Andrew Stroud was trying to break into American Superbikes in the USA and he had to come up with couple of hundred thousand just to get a seat in a half descent team.

[Drew]

If I remember correctly, Andrew Stroud was trying to brake into American Superbikes in the USA and he had to come up with couple of hundred thousand just to get a seat in a half descent team.

I'm pretty sure I recall a photo of him being lapped by Mick Doohan, or some other GP legend, so he did get a go on the international top level scene at least.

[onearmedbandit]

20 GP500 races apparently, according to the never-wrong site called wiki. I do remember him racing when I was watching 500's on TV but can't recall how many he did compete in.

[5150]

20 GP500 races apparently, according to the never-wrong site called wiki. I do remember him racing when I was watching 500's on TV but can't recall how many he did compete in.

Any idea what team(s) he was racing for in the GP500?



Only other person I know who had moderate success was Simon Crafar. He raced for Red Bull Yamaha in the GP500s

[Crasherfromwayback]

Quite right, however, Spies has won sweet FA in MotoGP, and Stoner,Lorenzo and Pedrosa where "lucky" enough to be spoon fed high end experience from an early age.... When was the last time a New Zealand champion racer (any discipline) emerged from, say...Otara?
I am of the opinion that going by the level of high risk, Devil may care, win at all costs attitudes in this and many other places in Kiwiland, the concept of piloting a bike around Imola would be less risk and higher reward that many other options.

My point exactly. What I was meaning...was Spies wasted all and sundry in SBK. Got to GP because of it. If he'd done same in GP he'd still be Lorenzo's team mate. And Stoner wasn't spoon feed anything after his mums tit. He raced dirt track until his parents sold every single fucking thing they owned to get him a ride in the UK. Rossi was born into GP racing and has never gone without anything in his life.

That's why I have more respect for Stoner than I do Rossi.

Simon Crafar was from a small town wannit e? If he'd continued his fine form he had with RedBull when they were on Dunlop tyres when they switched to Michelin, we would've been there for longer than he was.

Slighty kicked the door down in the Australian Superbike series. Got to World Supers. If he'd smashed them like Spies did he would've got a GP ride I bet.

So while I agree certain passports help...I still think if you're really that good...you'll get there regardless.