What a fucked up world

[Edbear]

tell this to my mother who literally starved to death.
for the terminally ill there are no options available other then morphine, and often that is not enough.

we have no problem killing the unwanted, for greed, or for resources etc. we - society have a problem with the fact that some people might not want to live anymore....but for what its worth, society, you me and the others usually don't have to live the lives of these people, so what gives.

I did say, "for the most part"... I don't know your mother's situation of course but I have been involved personally with several terminally people- family and friends including my father and each situation was different. However there were medical options for all of them as well as very different attitudes from them to their situation. The biggest factor by far was personal attitude by the one dying.

Just this evening we were notified of a dear friend who has been told she may have only a couple of weeks due to stage four cancer throughout her body. Not diagnosed until Thursday. Sudden and shocking to have it happen to a lady so kind and loving and her husband for whom she has been his rock for fifty years.

[Edbear]

You're not that special Ed. There's no shortage of people who deserve red - you just deserve it more than most others on here.

Your fascination with your rep speaks volumes.

Don't resort to rep Katman - Ed should be publicly ridiculed for our collective entertainment

cant we have our cake and eat it too?

As long as you guys are amused I guess. Does prove the truth about small things, though.

[skippa1]

As long as you guys are amused I guess. Does prove the truth about small things, though.

have a look down Ed, the proof is probably in your hand

[Edbear]

have a look down Ed, the proof is probably in your hand

But when it's in Mrs. Bear's hand...

[blue rider]

I did say, "for the most part"... I don't know your mother's situation of course but I have been involved personally with several terminally people- family and friends including my father and each situation was different. However there were medical options for all of them as well as very different attitudes from them to their situation. The biggest factor by far was personal attitude by the one dying.

Just this evening we were notified of a dear friend who has been told she may have only a couple of weeks due to stage four cancer throughout her body. Not diagnosed until Thursday. Sudden and shocking to have it happen to a lady so kind and loving and her husband for whom she has been his rock for fifty years.

There is no personal attitude to dying when one is rotting from the inside to the outside. there is only stench, screams, pain, and an utterly helpless family that would go and score any drug, absolutely any drug if they would know how to, just to stop the suffering and silence the screams.

This young man, who lost his case, you know what he is afraid of? I am not sure, but i thinks it is something like this: "shit, i will need someone to feed me, to clean me, to wipe my behind, to change my urine bag, to turn me over every couple of hours lest i get sores etc etc for the next 20 - 40 years". And there is no guarantee anyone can give him, that he will receive these services with kindness and a soft hand and that he will not start rotting in his own piss, because eventually in the hospice/nursing home he will end up living, no one gives a dime because they are underpaid, short staffed and why bother, it's not as if he could write a letter to his MP.

His attitude is fine, he is fighting for his dignity and he is not the only one. Its the attitude of the judge that can only be described as cowardly.

[Edbear]

There is no personal attitude to dying when one is rotting from the inside to the outside. there is only stench, screams, pain, and an utterly helpless family that would go and score any drug, absolutely any drug if they would know how to, just to stop the suffering and silence the screams.

This young man, who lost his case, you know what he is afraid of? I am not sure, but i thinks it is something like this: "shit, i will need someone to feed me, to clean me, to wipe my behind, to change my urine bag, to turn me over every couple of hours lest i get sores etc etc for the next 20 - 40 years". And there is no guarantee anyone can give him, that he will receive these services with kindness and a soft hand and that he will not start rotting in his own piss, because eventually in the hospice/nursing home he will end up living, no one gives a dime because they are underpaid, short staffed and why bother, it's not as if he could write a letter to his MP.

His attitude is fine, he is fighting for his dignity and he is not the only one. Its the attitude of the judge that can only be described as cowardly.

A truly horrible situation! I am puzzled that there was nothing that could help her. But not all places are as able as others.

As I heard it in this case, didn't the judge say it was the legislation that was the issue?

[skippa1]

But when it's in Mrs. Bear's hand...

you realise how big her hands are

[Ocean1]

this reminds me of a little story some years ago about a nice 70+ year old lady getting a tatto to make sure her wishes are respected.

I know 4 health professionals with DNR tattoos. One of them is an ED specialist and a cardio-thoracic surgeon. If you had the knowledge and experiences he does you probably would too.

Suicides in the elderly are becoming more common, many of whom pre-empt a perceived inability to make that decision. It’s not that they’ve reached any particular point where they feel they don’t want to live, but that they foresee the time approaching where that choice may be taken from them. In such cases it’s sobering to consider how many years may be taken from them by laws preventing others from helping them die with grace at a time of their choosing.

Laws forbidding suicide are pointless but ultimately harmless as they are treated with the contempt they deserve. Laws forbidding people from helping those perfectly capable of making the decision but unable to physically manage it are evil.

[blue rider]

A truly horrible situation! I am puzzled that there was nothing that could help her. But not all places are as able as others.

As I heard it in this case, didn't the judge say it was the legislation that was the issue?

Germany is as capable as any other place, but cancer aint nice and the days where a doctor would send someone home with a bag full of pills to spend the last days with the family are long gone. in the last couple of days the morphine patches did not diminish the pain anymore. Starvation is not nice, and is apparently quite painful. We wish no one would have to die like this, we would have preferred she had her ways at her own time. but alas, human dignity and sanctity of life means to die like a dog in a ditch and not a day earlier.

the judge was asked to allow a third party to help this young man die without facing prosecution for assisted suicide. the judge was hiding behind legislation to not have to issue what would be a rather personal opinion that might jeopardize said legislation. as i said, a coward, a discussion on this is long overdue and should be in the interest of the person requesting the right, and not in the interest of society, church or personal opinion of others.

we are not the ones suffering.

[Road kill]

Or is it Pandora's box?

Straight out of the Herald.

Good research there fella,,,

[Edbear]

Germany is as capable as any other place, but cancer aint nice and the days where a doctor would send someone home with a bag full of pills to spend the last days with the family are long gone. in the last couple of days the morphine patches did not diminish the pain anymore. Starvation is not nice, and is apparently quite painful. We wish no one would have to die like this, we would have preferred she had her ways at her own time. but alas, human dignity and sanctity of life means to die like a dog in a ditch and not a day earlier.

the judge was asked to allow a third party to help this young man die without facing prosecution for assisted suicide. the judge was hiding behind legislation to not have to issue what would be a rather personal opinion that might jeopardize said legislation. as i said, a coward, a discussion on this is long overdue and should be in the interest of the person requesting the right, and not in the interest of society, church or personal opinion of others.

we are not the ones suffering.

Morphine patches? Why not intravenous Morphine pump? I have seen three to through this and they all had pumps that were adjusted to suit. In this recent case of our dear friend though, the pain specialist sai Smorphine was the wrong choice and switched her to Methodone which immediately brought the pain down to manageable levels. Similar with my daughter recently though she didn't die, it took three days to find a type of Morphine that would work. Heart wrenching to watch. Not everyone can have the same for the same effect and in my own experience Morphine patches only work to a point.

[Edbear]

Straight out of the Herald.

Good research there fella,,,

Interesting as I don't read the Herald and made that comment from my own opinion based on knowledge of how it works.

[tigertim20]

Technically we're all terminally ill.

so... you're a glass half empty kinda guy?

tell this to my mother who literally starved to death.
for the terminally ill there are no options available other then morphine, and often that is not enough.

we have no problem killing the unwanted, for greed, or for resources etc. we - society have a problem with the fact that some people might not want to live anymore....but for what its worth, society, you me and the others usually don't have to live the lives of these people, so what gives.

nor do we have a problem with killing the undesirable, a few places still practice capital punishment

cant we have our cake and eat it too?

not if we are dead at our own request, no.

have a look down Ed, the proof is probably in your hand

and quote of the night goes to . . .

Laws forbidding suicide are pointless but ultimately harmless as they are treated with the contempt they deserve..

ironically, the law allows prosecution of attempted suicide, which I find hilarious. If youre gonna do it, best do it right then, right?

you are correct on the contempt count.

I think many of the people who oppose this issue do so, because they foresee a time when someone they love asks to die, and they have trouble balancing their own desire to spend more time with that person, against the wishes and autonomy of the person in question

[Road kill]

Interesting as I don't read the Herald and made that comment from my own opinion based on knowledge of how it works.

What ?,,youthinasia,,,yeah the old guy in the rest home didn't really know what they were talking about either.

Odd that the article only appeared a couple of days ago and you now claim not to know anything about it.
When you always know about everything else,,,very odd if you ask me.

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's simple really. People do hard things to save the lives of others (particularly for loved ones). Somebody needs to love the man enough to kill him. The rest can be sorted out in the courts. Getting permission is a lot harder than getting forgiven for things like this.