1 October 2012 new era for motorcycling

[davereid]

The entire driver licensing system is on the brink of collapse anyway.

Less than 45% of drivers pass the test first time, hundreds don't pass until they have sat the test several times.

Eventually the system will loose buy-in.

Young people, especially those from poor communities will simply not bother getting a licence as they know that they will not pass, and they simply don't have the money to keep throwing at the unobtainable.

We will then have to increase the penalties if such a thing is possible in an effort to keep them off the roads, but we already can't get fines paid, with millions of dollars in traffic fines owing and simply not collectible.


And of course, if you don't have a licence, you don't have an ID card. The last thing the government needs is a generation of young people who arent in the system.

Threats of licence suspension, demerits etc etc are pretty ineffectual if you don't have a licence and if you don't have any money you cant be fined.

[mossy1200]

The entire driver licensing system is on the brink of collapse anyway.

Less than 45% of drivers pass the test first time, hundreds don't pass until they have sat the test several times.

Why are so many failing?

[scumdog]

The entire driver licensing system is on the brink of collapse anyway.

Less than 45% of drivers pass the test first time, hundreds don't pass until they have sat the test several times.

Eventually the system will loose buy-in.

Young people, especially those from poor communities will simply not bother getting a licence as they know that they will not pass, and they simply don't have the money to keep throwing at the unobtainable.

We will then have to increase the penalties if such a thing is possible in an effort to keep them off the roads, but we already can't get fines paid, with millions of dollars in traffic fines owing and simply not collectible.


And of course, if you don't have a licence, you don't have an ID card. The last thing the government needs is a generation of young people who arent in the system.

Threats of licence suspension, demerits etc etc are pretty ineffectual if you don't have a licence and if you don't have any money you cant be fined.

The above applies to a very small percentage.

'Demerits' strikes fear into 'most all younger drivers.

But I hear what your saying with some comments.

The other day I took the drivers licence from a guy (130 demerits) and his girlfriend says "Oh, I suppose I'd better get my licence then, I hope I'm luckier this time, I failed the last seven times"

SEVEN times? - and then depends on being 'lucky' to get her licence?

And they live out of town and depend on 'somebody' having a licence....

[SMOKEU]

And any decent cam makes for a 'funny' idle.

To the untrained ear, a cracked vacuum hose or a faulty ignition system could sound exactly the same as aftermarket cams.

[scumdog]

To the untrained ear, a cracked vacuum hose or a faulty ignition system could sound exactly the same as aftermarket cams.

C'mon sonny, I did say 'not all cops are petrol heads'..

[mossy1200]

C'mon sonny, I did say 'not all cops are petrol heads'..

All cops need be trained in the art of sniffing bike exuasts.

[Tricia1000]

Because a huge proportion of those going to sit their driving test, show up unprepared. They have no idea about mirrors, blindspots etc to name just a couple. Parallel park in 2 to 4 moves? You must be kidding, some cant do it in 20 moves. The pass rate for Restricted car test has increased from 38% to 46%. Some people show up, and expect the testing office to provide a vehicle??? Now that is REALLY bad. Up until the end of February, you could basically get your licence just for showing up. Now it is a reasonably decent test... Yippee!!!

Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Why are so many failing?

[davereid]

'Demerits' strikes fear into 'most all younger drivers.

Yes thats my point. Licensing is about ensuring a driver has met a certain standard, and about having the ability to sanction them if they don't follow the rules. That is we know who they are and we can apply demerits or suspensions.


The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test. Thats twice the number of hours you need for a pilot licence and its simply not affordable for many.

So if they never get a licence, they will never even be tested to a basic level of skill. And we lose one of our major tools for applying sanctions, as we cant even be sure who they are, much less apply a suspension.

[SMOKEU]

The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test. Thats twice the number of hours you need for a pilot licence and its simply not affordable for many.

The trouble is that the majority of people who teach learner drivers have no idea how to drive properly either, so they're passing their stupidity and bad habits onto the next generation of drivers. I'd expect that pilots are trained by professionals and not some idiot who has no idea what they're doing.

[mossy1200]

Yes thats my point.


The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test.

120 hrs WOW

I had 2 lessons for the car but I already knew how to drive a tractor.
I did a skills test for the bike and 6 oral questions plus I had just passed the car licence test.
I did a defensive drivers course to reduce times.
I bought my road bike 2 days after starting my first job with money I had saved from market gardening while at school and had my license a week later.
I had riden trail bikes on the farm though.

[Tricia1000]

I provide car instruction as well as bike instruction. Unfortunately, the drivers who are "home schooled" on how to drive, almost always (about 90%) have very poor mirrors, and blind spots. If they are learning to drive a manual car, then quite often there is excessive coasting. Parents often budget large sums of money for football, ballet, dancing, violin lessons, you name it.
But they rarely budget any money to teach their kids the life saving skills that they so badly need.

Then, parents might say that they don't have the money to pay for driving lessons/bike lessons. But, they usually have the latest smart phone, flat screen tv, yearly holidays, mysky hdi etc. etc. This might show then that the funds are there, but the priorities as to what is important are a bit skewy.
Unfortunately, the normal way to become a driving instructor in NZ, is to sit a 4 week course. During this time, you will never teach a student, or sit beside a student. At the end of 4 weeks, you get the Instructor Endorsement. The majority of instructors have been trained this way, or some through distance learning.

Very few instructors in NZ (have worked as instructors, or trained as instructors overseas, myself included). I would love to see driving instructors teach people how to drive, no matter where they are driving, not just to robotically drive around a test route.
120 hours equates to 5 hours a week for 6 months. This has been introduced because statistics show that restricted licence holders have a high crash rate, within the first 2 months of solo driving. This crash rate is lower when the drivers have had a greater number of hours of driving in the learner phase.

Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Yes thats my point. Licensing is about ensuring a driver has met a certain standard, and about having the ability to sanction them if they don't follow the rules. That is we know who they are and we can apply demerits or suspensions.


The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test. Thats twice the number of hours you need for a pilot licence and its simply not affordable for many.

So if they never get a licence, they will never even be tested to a basic level of skill. And we lose one of our major tools for applying sanctions, as we cant even be sure who they are, much less apply a suspension.

[Glowerss]

Yes thats my point. Licensing is about ensuring a driver has met a certain standard, and about having the ability to sanction them if they don't follow the rules. That is we know who they are and we can apply demerits or suspensions.


The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test. Thats twice the number of hours you need for a pilot licence and its simply not affordable for many.

So if they never get a licence, they will never even be tested to a basic level of skill. And we lose one of our major tools for applying sanctions, as we cant even be sure who they are, much less apply a suspension.

Or, you could just convert an overseas license! Much easier! I was fucking shocked when I went to convert my US drivers license to a NZ one. 60$, and they'd mail me my full NZ one.

No theory test. No practical. No questions asked. Just "Yep, take your picture here, pay 60$ and it'll be in the mail".

To me, that's way way way bigger deal then lax testing or testing that's too strict. They didn't ask how long I'd been here, how long I was staying, if I was a resident. NOTHING. I don't know how many other countries you can simply swap them over or how common it is, but there were 3 people ahead of me doing the same thing. All three from Asia somewhere. Might go a long way to explaining why some driving out there is fucking shocking People like me legally on the road!

[mossy1200]

120 hours equates to 5 hours a week for 6 months.

Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

WTF

At how much per hour 50?? 60??
Wouldnt want to have twins that want drivers licence each.

Cancel all insurance policy,eat only(cold) instant noodles,cut off phone and power,walk to work and get a second job to get the kids a license.

[scumdog]

The trouble is that the majority of people who teach learner drivers have no idea how to drive properly either, so they're passing their stupidity and bad habits onto the next generation of drivers. I'd expect that pilots are trained by professionals and not some idiot who has no idea what they're doing.

True lil' Smokey, - bozo parents/mates teach the kids bozo driving skills...only the kids don't even learn all the bozo lessons
Mandatory lessons by trained instructors would make a big difference.

Cos if you're paying $$$ you're less likely to spit the dummy like the kid on the TV ad.

Funny how young people forget how dumb they were prior to getting their licence - and how know-all they suddenly become after getting it...

[SMOKEU]

Funny how young people forget how dumb they were prior to getting their licence - and how know-all they suddenly become after getting it...

I agree. When I was young I thought my skills were vastly superior to what they actually were. Until I crashed into a pole. More than once.