Vehicle license reform. Danger and opportunity for bikers

[Katman]

So you won't like my comment that driving and riding on our roads is a privilege not a right

I'm well aware that it's a privilege, not a right.

My point is that insurance policies do nothing to reduce crashes.

[rustic101]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions and pay for idiots that don't.

I dislike insurance too but still have it as a safeguard. Plus you can't legislate against idiots unfortunately that's not an Offence.

[Katman]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions pay for idiots that don't.

I dislike insurance too but still have it as a safeguard. Plus you can't legislate against idiots unfortunately that's not an Offence.

What totally flawed logic.

If anything, insurance gives people the opportunity to be even less careful.

[Scuba_Steve]

Appreciate your perspective. However having a consequence for non compliance through enforcement and removal of the vehicle is a pretty good motivator to comply. The message will get through after a few tows. Why should those of us that mitigate as much risk as possible and take precautions and pay for idiots that don't.

Yet you want compulsory 3rd party, which would increase your insurance cost to cover these "idiots" sorta hypocritical don't you think???
Just get full cover & be happy with the fact it's MUCH cheaper than even 3rd party would be under a compulsory scheme

[Conquiztador]

The reality is they are aware of the good reasons for a petrol based levy.

That's why they have tried hard early in the document to discredit it.

They have given us a window here. By attempting to discredit it, they have put it on the table, and actually shown some of their cards.

We get the chance to discredit right back at them.

The cost of the current system must be horrendous.

The NZTA have to print labels and post them to every one. They have to run a computer system to keep track of who has licenced, who has not and who is late. They have operate an enforcement and debt collection system, and its quoted in the document as resulting in thousands of fines that are not paid.

Even the cost of the call center that deals with licencing etc must be millions and millions of dollars.

Add to that the cost of the proposed rebates ACC want, and the system is very top heavy.

We need to find out a way to get our hands on those numbers. This can be done by OIA, but the closing date for submissions is very close to the time it takes for an OIA to be answered. Plus NZTA always stall my OIAs now, as I have made it to the troublemaker category.

Anyone want to help formulate some good questions, and get them off to NZTA/ MOT / ACC ?

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

[scumdog]

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

Hmmm, with 27 litres worth of motor to feed I'm not sure it's a good idea!

[rustic101]

What totally flawed logic.

If anything, insurance gives people the opportunity to be even less careful.

Again I tend to disagree. I have full replacement insurance for the house. That does not mean I walk out the door and leave the candles burning next to the curtains. Why because I take personal responsibility and have modified my behavior to prevent that fire from starting.

I wonder if riders/drivers could do the same by taking personal responsibility for their actions when in charge of a lethal weapon like a half ton car etc?

No one I have ever met has been forced to ride/drive like an idiot. Everyone of them have been the master of their own destiny and have made that decision concisely or subconsciously themselves without considering the impact or consequences.

[Conquiztador]

Hmmm, with 27 litres worth of motor to feed I'm not sure it's a good idea!

WOW!!! I NEED to see that bike!!

[Scuba_Steve]

Let's see if I get this right:
- You propose license AND Acc to be collected hrough a levy on petrol?
- You propose no license sticker for any vehicles?

That would mean:
- Registration of vehicle and number plate provided. Then nothing more (apart from 6 monthly/yearly WOF) for a vehicle be that it is used or not.

This would be almost a radical approach... And I am sure our law enforcment would have problems with this. But from a users point of view life would become simple:
Once you have a plate on the vehicle there is only two things you need to do: Do the regular WOF and buy fuel.

The simple ideas are always the best...

here's the biggest problems... not all motors are vehicles. Electrics get a free ride, hybrids get a subsidised ride & what about LPG, should you pay for the road when you BBQ or should they too get a free ride???
Fairest system by far is everything on RUC's you use you pay, simple easy

[Katman]

Again I tend to disagree. I have full replacement insurance for the house. That does not mean I walk out the door and leave the candles burning next to the curtains. Why because I take personal responsibility and have modified my behavior to prevent that fire from starting.

I wonder if riders/drivers could do the same by taking personal responsibility for their actions when in charge of a lethal weapon like a half ton car etc?

No one I have ever met has been forced to ride/drive like an idiot. Everyone of them have been the master of their own destiny and have made that decision concisely or subconsciously themselves without considering the impact or consequences.

For a *non sworn* policeman you're really quite thick.

[rustic101]

Dear Katman

You may have the wrong person!!!
I do not work for nor am I employed by Police.
May pay to check your facts before shooting from the hip...

[Katman]

Dear Katman

You may have the wrong person!!!
I do not work for nor am I employed by Police.
May pay to check your facts before shooting from the hip...

That doesn't surprise me.

Stoney never seemed to know what the fuck he was talking about.

[rustic101]

That doesn't surprise me.

Stoney never seemed to know what the fuck he was talking about.

Made me smile as you called me thick

Is that an own goal I wonder

[Katman]

Is that an own goal I wonder

The jury's still out.

[Zamiam]

Thanks for the link. Have done a submission online:

1. Warning period of 2 weeks if WOF or Rego expired then automatic fine if not fixed in 7 days
2. Sliding scale of fines - why fine me the same when my rego/wof has just expired as the prick who has driving around for 12 months with no rego or wof
3. One lot of ACC fees per individual. As others have said why should I be gouged for ACC just because I own a car, a van and a bike. I can only use one at a time.