MotoGP 2012

[BMWST?]

I bet you could have a grid of "production" race bikes and the three blokes cleaning up now would still be out the front even if they were "non electronic" two strokes

[bogan]

We live in an age of electronics, to not allow electronic controls ( and the development / advances that are eventually passed down to everyday bikes ) is in itself untenable.

Electronically controlled suspension ( for example ) with a different setting for every corner and throttle postion etc etc is a positive advance. Premier classes in part exist for such development.

It starts being less about how you can ride it, and more about how you can set it up though. Is that going to make for interesting racing? I reckon it would as long as the cost didn't inhibit the grid size.

[Robert Taylor]

It starts being less about how you can ride it, and more about how you can set it up though. Is that going to make for interesting racing? I reckon it would as long as the cost didn't inhibit the grid size.

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

[Robert Taylor]

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

His engineers and suspension guy ( Ohlins of course ) are just as deserving of the winners accolades as Pol. Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

[bogan]

Its always been about both. Look at Pol Espargo, excellent bike setup gave him the confidence to streak away into the distance in Moto 2.

I know its always been about both, but its a balance thing. How about active downforce programmed for every corner as well as the suspension, would allow them to go a lot faster, but you'd start to get a bike set up for just one line; probably not so good for lots of passing and close racing.

Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.

I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see the balance tip right over, and have racing with no riders at all, then we'll see the tech come out!

[Mental Trousers]

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.

Rules that make a good series for viewers give you NASCAR. I'm not a fan.

From the looks of this thread most people want to see fewer rules.

[bogan]

Rules that make a good series for viewers give you NASCAR. I'm not a fan.

From the looks of this thread most people want to see fewer rules.

Nascar is targeted to a different audience. The rulemakers job is (or should be) to figure out what their target audience wants to see, then deliver on that. In my mind, that is:
Good close racing
Tech development, and running the best (or very close to it) that can be built
Decent grid size

CRT was a way to increase the grid size, but it falls short of the other two (I don't consider back of the pack close racing as good close racing). Unlimited tech rules will make it too expensive for some manufacturers, and reduce the grid size; the wrong limitations will have the same effect as teams spend 5k on a bolt for that extra edge.

anyway, probably getting a bit off track with the thread, maybe these should be moved to that other thread...

[actungbaby]

[QUOTE=Bender;1130420242]I'm a Stoner fan too. Strange but I'm not usually one to get emotional about particular people in any sport - I usually enjoy the game for what it is rather than get involved with personalities.

But Stoner's won me over because I find him such an exciting rider - so different to the riders who go for smooth.

me too i thought was really nice to see his little daughter taking intrest in his leathers

I kinda thought he was so so but have to say think his attitude to turn down all that money

And retire was right descion and showed he rides for right reasons which is refreshing change

see him congrating jorge was good to see too.

i actually enjoyed watching the race dl cause havent got sky but yeah was cool

its going be great to see them able to race for win with nothing to worry ,as will jorge and dani

I think bit misjuged seems okay young guy just not into talking to much hehe bit like eddie lawson i guess

[eelracing]

Its easy to forget that in motorsport its more than about the riders / drivers. Technology should be at the forefront in especially the premier classes.

Motorcycle racing is the most human of all motorsports because the rider will always be the biggest difference.(and long may it continue)
Slavishly following the dead-end that is the current electronic technology MotoGP race series will only result in the continuation of the dull racing that we saw in the 800cc era...everyone braking at the same point,turning in at the same point and going through and out of the corner at the same pace.As has been mentioned the rider will eventually only be there to hold the bike upright on the startline.

Racing as entertainment is dead and the computer geek is the new king.Ban this insidious electronic shit...it belongs in cars with crap drivers.

I say MotoGP needs a fresh shot in the arm and if technology has to be at the forefront then open up the rules to allow more competition via different tyre,suspension and brake manufacturers.
Who say's that only Ohlins are the best...they used to say the same about Michelin once upon a time.
That's what the original idea behind 500cc Grand Prix racing was about...open to all and sundry,not just a select few.

[Robert Taylor]

Motorcycle racing is the most human of all motorsports because the rider will always be the biggest difference.(and long may it continue)
Slavishly following the dead-end that is the current electronic technology MotoGP race series will only result in the continuation of the dull racing that we saw in the 800cc era...everyone braking at the same point,turning in at the same point and going through and out of the corner at the same pace.As has been mentioned the rider will eventually only be there to hold the bike upright on the startline.

Racing as entertainment is dead and the computer geek is the new king.Ban this insidious electronic shit...it belongs in cars with crap drivers.

I say MotoGP needs a fresh shot in the arm and if technology has to be at the forefront then open up the rules to allow more competition via different tyre,suspension and brake manufacturers.
Who say's that only Ohlins are the best...they used to say the same about Michelin once upon a time.
That's what the original idea behind 500cc Grand Prix racing was about...open to all and sundry,not just a select few.

Im glad you mentioned suspension. The class is entirely open to any suspension manufacturer who cares to enter. Note that in Ohlins case they sponsor absolutely nobody. Everybody, and I mean everybody has to buy the product. If they want trackside backup they then have to buy a service contract. Teams make their own choice of what they want to run.
Note that Honda hounded Ohlins for years, they wanted to run their suspension. But at that time Yamaha Motor Co was the majority shareholder in Ohlins and kept vetoing it. Two or three visits back to Ohlins In Stockholm I was there when a handful of HRC enginerrs were being trained. Note that Honda is a majority owner of Showa ( an excellent company ), so its a strange world.

[Bender]

The premier class is in an impossible position.

Of course it should be no-holds-barred prototypes, everything goes. The reality is that those clever engineers will make the bikes faster and faster, along the straights and round the corners. And in any technology where there are only tiny gains to be made, the costs rise exponentially (look at the America's Cup - the monohulls had become expensive and dull so they went to 72ft catamarans. Only four teams could afford the things and now everyone, including the person responsible for that happening, "Sir" Russell Coutts, admits it was a mistake. Too exensive).

It then becomes a game of who has the deepest pockets. So far that's been Honda and Yamaha. Ducati is struggling. The rest have dropped out because the game got too expensive.

Where does that leave MotoGP? With small grids and maybe half a dozen bikes that truly meet the prototype tag. If Ducati, under its new owners, drops out, the series is in deep trouble. Dorna recognise this and are trying to take steps to make the game a little cheaper. The trouble is that every restriction just becomes a challenge to these guys and they throw more money at it to overcome it.

I don't know what the answer is because that answer is not a simple one. Dorna are struggling with it, clearly.

BTW - let's not forget the much vaunted two stroke era was on its knees in the final years. No one wanted to play any more. It was only Kenny Roberts convincing Yamaha to make engines available to customers that prolonged the final throes.

If we still had two strokes they would be just as expensive because all the other bits would cost just as much. Them umbrella girls are not cheap you know.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The viewers should be at the forefront, without them you'd have nothing.

Then you have the NASCAR problem. My perception of that is that NASCAR audiences (and I deliberately didnt use the word fans) could not give a crap about the technology, and of course NASCAR tech is famously limited, its all about the "personaliites" of the drivers.

In fact the best expression of that is to appeal to the widest viewer base you need to make the personal clashes very thrilling: so close racing. That implies close controls on the technology (or a spec vehicle, not just "control" tyres). And a casual fan watches motorsport for carnage. So in fact we're back at the Roman circus. Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?) but its a long long way from motorcycle racing (even car racing) as we know it.

I also take Robert's point: its not just the guy pedalling the thing round the course that wins it. Though they're the ones who get the hot bitches and big paycheque.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nascar is targeted to a different audience. The rulemakers job is (or should be) to figure out what their target audience wants to see, then deliver on that. In my mind, that is:
Good close racing
Tech development, and running the best (or very close to it) that can be built
Decent grid size

I think that you can have two of those things (close racing and decent grid size, but not the tech) (in the current fiscal environment) but not all three.

All the good racing is in WSS, BSS and Superbikes anyway: with the tech restrictions we're looking at, havent we just turned MotoGP into superbikes? or at best, CRT?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think in the next 10-20 years we'll see the balance tip right over, and have racing with no riders at all, then we'll see the tech come out!

They can fly fighter planes (well, planes) half way round the world to bomb the shit out of people, all you need to do is intersect that technology and Need for Speed 7 and you can have the world simulator racing championships. Woo! That the ultimate expression of technology, innit. Would you (or I) buy a ticket? not so much.

[Badjelly]

Now, I'm all for feeding Xtians to lions (who wouldn't watch that?)

Brilliant! Make sure you patent that idea before you take it to Carmelo Ezpeleta.