American gun mania

[SMOKEU]

Smoke, you'd know this how?

You are wrong!

I know enough about the basic rules of the Arms Act 1983 to stay in full compliance with the legislation. A cat rimfire firearms are allowed to have a magazine capacity of up to and including 15 rounds. There are rimfire MSSA firearms around as well.

[Akzle]

No ordinary citizen of New Zealand who isn't in the military is allowed to own or independently operate fully automatic weapons here in NZ. In relation to the underlined and emboldened part of the quote above.

Further, re establish a gun register, here in NZ the gubbermint of the day decided to abolish our gun register. A book in every police station that recorded the sale of every registered firearm in the country.

Do you physically examine the storage capability of every gun owner and ensure that they Do keep their weapons in those safes? We do here in NZ.

while i generally agree with your sentiments, and respect the intention, i have to disagree:

1) C cat licence allows ownership and use of auto weapons.
2) gun register fails, the biggest reason, is that criminals will not register their guns. the second part is that knowing the serial number on a stolen gun doesn't actually stop that gun being used for crime.
find and read the thorpe report, it covered it off pretty well.
3)the storage requirements are examined ONCE when you apply for a licence, they CAN be randomly checked (i've never heard of it) and will be looked at in cases where the cops are going through your house anyway and want something else to ping you on.

Seriously, the gun register worked for Police, it did tell them who owned what guns, "legally" As usual though it didn't tell them who had the illegal ones.

You are wrong!

An A cat licence allows you to own and operate a centre fire rifle with a fixed magazine capacity of no more than 7 rounds. if you own a semi auto rifle capable of taking a box magazine then you must only own a 7 shot magazine.
If you want to use your semi auto rifle with more than a 7 round capacity magazine then you must apply for, pay much more money for and then be accepted as an E cat owner, then and only then are you legally allowed to own and operate a semi auto rifle that can hold in any way more than 7 rounds.

as above. C cat = autos.

if you're applying for endorsements on your licence, you should apply for as many as you can and only pay the 200$ application fee ONCE, this can get you your B,C,E cat (dealers licence separate i believe), plus the cost of a 6mm safe.

Wrong! The cops didnt even think to check that jaan mollenar had no firearms after he no longer held a license. Then to make it an even bigger cock up, they sent unarmed officers to his residence when the knew he was unstable

Wont happen. The government has proven to license holders that we cant trust them. See the complete balls up with PCP air guns, a knee jerk piece of legislation due to the death of mr Snee. Instead of restricting airguns with a set power limit, all PCPs were declared firearms. So now a PCP of 6 ft/lbs energy used for olympic competition is a firearm ( and incapable of killing anybody), where as a spring cocker of 25 ft/lbs is still an air gun

Already proven that the police dont use the current information they have access to and that the lack of enforcement of current legislation is the issue, not a lack of firearms legislation. See Canada for the the screw up that is the registry (inaccurate, over budget, and compromised on several occasions by criminal elements. Apart from that, what use does it give. Criminals WILL NOT REGISTER THEIR FIREARMS TO BE USED IN CRIME

1) the cops exceeded their authority in entering molenaar's property. i have no sympathy for them. the number of cops that do this on any given day and don't get shot is probably too sick to think about.
and the property-occupant has no recourse, and gets dragged through the crown machine.

2) the PCP thing was hilarious. they generally cost upward of 1500 bucks. require careful maintenance specific gear for filling etc, not exactly the "specs of choice" for crims. PLUS, didn't cover PCP pistols. (don't worry, they're going to nail this down with the latest amendment - all air pistols will be banned.
http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/gove...resel_25_h&p=1
)

[caseye]

Smoke, I was referring specifically to Centre fire weapons as you know, stop shit stirring.
Akzle you to are not quite right.
Here tis directly from the Act.

C’ Endorsement (29(2)(b)-(e) Arms Act 1983)
Collectors, Museums, Theatrical
This allows the holder to have pistols and/or restricted weapons. These may not be fired, and are subject to strict storage security.

Persons who come within this category are in the subcategories
of:

Bona fide collectors: Collections must have an identifiable theme. An ad hoc, unrelated group of firearms is not a ‘collection’.
Heirloom or Memento holder: A person to whom a pistol or restricted weapon has special significance.
Director or curator of a bona fide museum.
Employees of bonafide theatrical groups or film making organisations.

Note: Each of these endorsements is issued under the authority of a different subsection of the Arms Act and is specific for the purpose it was issued. If you have a C Endorsement for one sub-category it does not automatically entitle you to any other sub-category.

[Swoop]

The gun register!
Yep Canada have just thrown it out because it cost too much.
Question, what is too much?

The financial part was only one of the reasons (a massive amount however) for getting rid of the registry. Being ineffectual and a waste of time being others.
NZ has probably the best system in place. Check the person prior to issuing a licence. Interviewing family and independant referees for that person is also a vital issue and one that is done very well for firearms owners here.

See the complete balls up with PCP air guns, a knee jerk piece of legislation due to the death of mr Snee.

You are confusing Molenaar with the Auckland incident where the car was being bugged. Mr Snee was shot by Molenaar (not with an airgun)

1) C cat licence allows ownership and use of auto weapons.

3)the storage requirements are examined ONCE when you apply for a licence, they CAN be randomly checked (i've never heard of it)

1: No. Not for firing.
3: You have now heard of it. I have been visited and inspected with a full serial number check of my registered firearms.
An interesting visit with plenty of good chatting over historical issues surrounding certain guns. Quite pleasant actually.

[Paul in NZ]

and this is the problem....

ANY debate on this issue goes down the toilet because it devolves into a spirited debate on whether a pink stocked rim fire semi auto crow plucker should have a 14 round magazine or are only muzzle loaders OK and besides my grandad had a bazooka and an anti aircraft gun and he never kilt no body so it aint the guns fault..... If there is anything more boring than listening to gun nuts rave on about their rights it could only be motorcyclists bemoaning how its all the car drivers fault. I'd rather walk backward up mount cook wearing a live possum strapped to my groin than wade through both together on KB....

The fact is america and some other societies DO have an issue with deranged people getting hold of terrific fire power and causing untold grief. Everyone is more concerned about their own personal 'rights' than they are about the victims than actually suggesting solutions that have a prayer of working. Its very sad...

IMHO - this is a multifaceted issue and one that is not going to be solved by gun control alone. At some point we need to start looking at the combination of issues. Gun availability is one, how we treat mental health is another (plus the increase in autistic spectrum disorders) and then there are the changes in societies from the rapid growth of technology from video games, movies through to the internet. Couple this with a recession that has been going on for a very long time and no opportunity for youth to enter meaningful work and we have an explosive issue...

People with poor social skills relating only to characters in fantastically realistic violent media where there are no repercussions or consequences for unsavory action living in a society where fame is everything and morality a non existent concept while having access to terrible weapons is a nightmare.

[Akzle]

1: No. Not for firing.
3: You have now heard of it. I have been visited and inspected with a full serial number check of my registered firearms.

1)

not for firing

2)
registered firearms, like B&E cats eh?

[caseye]

Butt Akzle, it's the law!
Point taken and acknowledged but there it is in b&w, aye smokie.

[Delerium]

The financial part was only one of the reasons (a massive amount however) for getting rid of the registry. Being ineffectual and a waste of time being others.
NZ has probably the best system in place. Check the person prior to issuing a licence. Interviewing family and independant referees for that person is also a vital issue and one that is done very well for firearms owners here.

You are confusing Molenaar with the Auckland incident where the car was being bugged. Mr Snee was shot by Molenaar (not with an airgun)

1: No. Not for firing.
3: You have now heard of it. I have been visited and inspected with a full serial number check of my registered firearms.
An interesting visit with plenty of good chatting over historical issues surrounding certain guns. Quite pleasant actually.

My bad, the the point was still being made though.

As for what to do... enforce current legislation and stop with the ridiculous ineffective legislation like the touch our butts campaign. I dont see the point in making more ineffective law just so the govt can be seen to be doing something. eg the whole PCP changes... are stupid.

Remember, this latest event did not happen here. firearm crime in nz is typically done with bolt actions and shotguns, so why change the rules that wont have any effect on crime?

[Swoop]

firearm crime in nz is typically done with bolt actions and shotguns, so why change the rules that wont have any effect on crime?

Quite true.
The major events that happened with semi's (David Gray and Jan Molenaar) were already in the eye of the police and in Gray's case they failed to act when indicators said something was wrong. Just the same as the UK police failing to act on the perfetrator at Dunblane, yet every shooter was affected by that police cock-up.

[jasonu]

this is a bloody stupid argument.A military style automatic is designed for one thing.To despatch as many peole as possible.That is not the design breif of a GSXR 1000

My point is that some see a military style weapon as overkill (no pun intended) and the same could be said for a GSXR1000. Wasn't that hard to figure out really...

[jasonu]

Well i guess they could make guns illegal,when enough children have been killed by bombs made in the kitchen using instructions off the internet they could ban the internet and even kitchens i guess.Mexico has vastly different ideas re guns,fuck all crime in Mexico...

I agree with all of the above EXCEPT for the bit about fuck all crime in Mexico (Unless you were being fasicious of course). That place is riddled with all sorts of crime and is a totally unsafe place to be/visit.

[Swoop]

I agree with all of the above EXCEPT for the bit about fuck all crime in Mexico (Unless you were being fasicious of course). That place is riddled with all sorts of crime and is a totally unsafe place to be/visit.

Mexico is an unknown in NZ. It doesn't make the news here, so has to be "safe".
Cartels? What are those?

[ellipsis]

. That place is riddled with all sorts of crime and is a totally unsafe place to be/visit.

...even if you are a badass Mexican with a bootload of M16s...

[scumdog]

Hmm, Monday an office duty female officer shot'n'dropped a gunman letting loose with a pistol in San Antonio...

[SMOKEU]

I agree with all of the above EXCEPT for the bit about fuck all crime in Mexico (Unless you were being fasicious of course). That place is riddled with all sorts of crime and is a totally unsafe place to be/visit.

Mexico is an unknown in NZ. It doesn't make the news here, so has to be "safe".
Cartels? What are those?

Mexico, the home of Mundonarco.