Commuting via bike is good for cars and traffic, too

[bogan]

So why is my 1600kg Ford Ka cheaper to run than a 200kg 750cc motorcycle in a mild state of tune? Surely the only worthwhile measure of efficiency is how much fuel a vehicle uses over a given distance? Factor in an equivalency equation to cope with the capacity difference and the Ka starts to look bloody good. In that instance the Ka wins hands down. Couple that with shorter, more labour intensive service intervals and tyres that cost twice as much for 2 tyres than four that last 6 times longer than those on the bike and it really becomes a very unpleasant picture. Not cheap tyres either. I have Bridgestone Re880s on it now and 4 of those cost the same as 1 Pirelli Angel rear for the Xjr, the same size tyre as would have gone on the Zed.

In terms of drag, bikes are much worse than cars. The average faired motorcycle has a cd of about 0.36. Unfaired and it's in the 0.40 range. Most cars these days are high 0.20s.

Exactly, its not just the engine tech, its the total outcome. Cos the 'mild' tune didn't consider fuel efficiency to be high up the list is my guess.

Of course bikes have a higher cd than cars, they have much more sticky out bits (like the rider), the drag force is still lower in most cases cos they have a far smaller frontal area. And the rolling drag is a tad lighter too.

[davereid]

So why is my 1600kg Ford Ka cheaper to run than a 200kg 750cc motorcycle in a mild state of tune? Surely the only worthwhile measure of efficiency is how much fuel a vehicle uses over a given distance? Factor in an equivalency equation to cope with the engine capacity difference and the weight it tows around and the Ka starts to look bloody good. In that instance the Ka wins hands down. Couple that with shorter, more labour intensive service intervals and tyres that cost twice as much for 2 tyres than four for the Ka that last 6 times longer than those on the bike and it really becomes a very unpleasant picture. Not cheap tyres either. I have Bridgestone Re880s on it now and 4 of those cost the same as 1 Pirelli Angel rear for the XJR1300 (don't mention that consumption figures, don't mention the consumption figures), the same size tyre as would have gone on the Zed.

In terms of drag, bikes are much worse than cars. The average faired motorcycle has a cd of about 0.36. Unfaired and it's in the 0.40 range. Most cars these days are high 0.20s, low 0.30s.

I don't think you are making really fair comparisons. The Ka was built to be cheap reliable economical transport. The guys who designed the 750 wouldnt have even given that a thought. They added cylinders and carbs and cams to give more power, as that was what the market wanted.

Compare vehicles with similar performance. Like my old ER6F and my 6.1 litre Holden V8.

The Holdens faster at the top end marginally, if you can keep it on the road, but its not as quick off the mark.

At round town commuter speeds CD is irrelevant. But the bike reliably returned 65mpg, and I could squeeze 75 out of it if I played nice. The Holden is lucky to get 20mpg, and often gets worse. Both vehicles had fuel injection and cat converters. I sold the bike before it needed tyres, but the ute needs them every 30,000 - 40,000 km, to tyre consumption is equivalent.

The ute needs 6.5 litres oil and a filter every 10,000 km. The bike needs 2.2 l oil and a filter at the same distance.

Both engines will last forever if looked after.

[pritch]

So how do you factor in the Belgian research that showed the motorcycles involved meant that every vehicle spent two minutes less on their journey. That's a lot of polution saved soley due to the presence of the bikes.

[ducatilover]

what about 13 yr old galants falcons commodores and toyota surfs

I've had many things on EGA systems and my bikes are disgusting (I did a paper for some automotive thingy a few years back during some study stuff I was doing)
My VT250 was worse than a VS Ecotec Commodore. Which is not something you'd expect.
Newer bikes do have much better tech, but they're still not as good as a small car, simply because decent bikes will run such an extreme tune

Engine size isn't a deciding factor in it, it's the condition of the motor, the tune and the emissions gear.

[Ocean1]

A well setup two stroke on-song is pretty efficient, but outside of it's peak efficiency is pissing raw, unburnt fuel into the atmosphere.

Unless it's an Evenrude. Clean two strokes are here, and they're owned lock, stock and barrel by BRP.

[SMOKEU]

Commuting by motorbike is an excellent idea, so then I can give all the thieves and vandals the perfect opportunity to fuck with my bike while it's left unattended in a public place.

[McFatty1000]

Commuting by motorbike is an excellent idea, so then I can give all the thieves and vandals the perfect opportunity to fuck with my bike while it's left unattended in a public place.

But people can and will do that to any vehicle if they want. And hey, its kinda fun to turn the fuel off on mates bikes and watch them try to figure out why the bike stops before they're a block away...

[SMOKEU]

But people can and will do that to any vehicle if they want. And hey, its kinda fun to turn the fuel off on mates bikes and watch them try to figure out why the bike stops before they're a block away...

These days it's silly to leave a nice looking vehicle parked in public all day and expect to find it in the same condition as when you left it. I'd rather lose a $200 push bike than have a car or motorbike fucked with by assholes who have no respect for the property of anyone else.

[McFatty1000]

These days it's silly to leave a nice looking vehicle parked in public all day and expect to find it in the same condition as when you left it. I'd rather lose a $200 push bike than have a car or motorbike fucked with by assholes who have no respect for the property of anyone else.

Yeah, point taken, I guess thats more an unfortunate reflection on society though, yet another factor that has to be taken into account with simple things like commuting now

[swbarnett]

These days it's silly to leave a nice looking vehicle parked in public all day and expect to find it in the same condition as when you left it. I'd rather lose a $200 push bike than have a car or motorbike fucked with by assholes who have no respect for the property of anyone else.

It's like a fine piece of furniture. You don't hide that in a cupboard for fear the kids are going to scratch it. It's there to be used.

And besides, in the six years I've been commuting (every day) since I got back in to riding I've never had so much as a finger print on the paintwork.

[GSF]

These days it's silly to leave a nice looking vehicle parked in public all day and expect to find it in the same condition as when you left it. I'd rather lose a $200 push bike than have a car or motorbike fucked with by assholes who have no respect for the property of anyone else.

Where the fuck do you live? In three years of commuting each day, my bike has sat either in the car park of a shopping mall or at the end of a short dead-end street in Newton all day and it's never been touched.

That sort of attitude just means that the terrorists win, dude.

[st00ji]

comparing bikes to cars is foolish. bike manufacturers have generally spent the last 40 years making their bikes faster, whereas car manufacturers have generally spent the last 40 making their cars cleaner and more efficient.

two wheeled devices obviously have the potential to be brilliant at the clean and efficient thing, they just need some demand to get manufacturers spending on it.

[SMOKEU]

Where the fuck do you live? In three years of commuting each day, my bike has sat either in the car park of a shopping mall or at the end of a short dead-end street in Newton all day and it's never been touched.

That sort of attitude just means that the terrorists win, dude.

I live in Christchurch. After having owned a few vehicles that some cunts fucked with, and reading numerous threads about stolen and vandalized vehicles on here and the TM message boards, and seeing all the damage people willingly do to vehicles, I've decided that it's simply not a risk worth taking.

[James Deuce]

comparing bikes to cars is foolish. bike manufacturers have generally spent the last 40 years making their bikes faster, whereas car manufacturers have generally spent the last 40 making their cars cleaner and more efficient.

two wheeled devices obviously have the potential to be brilliant at the clean and efficient thing, they just need some demand to get manufacturers spending on it.

Yeah it is. So is claiming that Bikes are cleaner and more efficient than cars. They're not.

So how do you factor in the Belgian research that showed the motorcycles involved meant that every vehicle spent two minutes less on their journey. That's a lot of polution saved soley due to the presence of the bikes.

The Belgian research ignores the fact that most people don't want to ride a bike (gasp!). They'd rather get a bus than get on a bike. Motorcycling isn't for everyone. It's not even for a large minority of the commuting public.

I don't think you are making really fair comparisons. The Ka was built to be cheap reliable economical transport. The guys who designed the 750 wouldnt have even given that a thought. They added cylinders and carbs and cams to give more power, as that was what the market wanted.

I don't think it's unfair to compare the Ka and Zed. If you want to compare similar performance then you start getting into the cost vs. performance argument that cars are always going to loose, despite being cheaper to own than the similar performing bike. No one likes it when I mention that the Ka is significantly cheaper to commute in (a couple of thousand a year) and takes about 10 minutes longer than the bike to cover the same distance in commuter traffic. I think it's just a kneejerk to me pointing out that bikes aren't the cheap transport people would like to think they are.

In the '60s motorcycles were transport and 80-100mpg was taken for granted. Somewhere along the way we let wannabe racers dictate what people needed for two-wheeled transport and the end result is that most developed countries are trying to legislate bikes out of existence, or at least raise the entry bar so high that kids can't be bothered. Why would you ride a weak 4 stroke 125 around for 2 years and then a heavy 175kg+ 47hp boring arse bike for another 2 years when even the smallest VW Polo is cheaper to run, faster, and you can carry 4 people in it?

[bogan]

Yeah it is. So is claiming that Bikes are cleaner and more efficient than cars. They're not.

Regardless of how you split hairs on the current situation (for the sake of argument lets call it even), his point was if the purpose of more bikes was commuting, and made cleanliness and efficiency a priority for manufacturers, they quickly would be cleaner and more efficient. So assuming that more people on commuters changes commuter bike technology, you could definitely say more people on commuter bikes is better for the environment. Chances are even a commuter's choice from the current lineup would start moving the bike's efficiency well above cars.