The California Superbike School has returned to NZ. New website up and running!

[neil_cb125t]

Some good banter happening on this thread!!

Turning in early is a survival reaction, people falsely believe that turning into a turn early will mean that you will use less lean angle to make it around the turn... this is incorrect, a later turn in straightens the corner out, which also assists the rider to make a later apex. If you apex early how will this effect your projected line on exit, will you run tighter or wider on exit?

To be clear CSS days are NOT track days, each session the student must work on the drill that they has been instructed on in the class room. A student that does not work on the drill during the on track session is pulled in and reminded about what it is we are trying to achieve, its simply bad value for money to go to a training environment and then not carry out the training!! Lastly Students are permitted to use only 1 gear and no brakes (unless required to avoid another rider or the grass) for the first 2 sessions, and that is every student no matter what level. This is to again to assist students to work on a single skill at a time, not trying to fit a skill as they are backing it into the hairpin!

We are all students to something aye - as a coach the one thing I have learnt is I have SOO MUCH MORE TO LEARN and PRACTICE!!!

We have information brochures if anyone would like one

[neil_cb125t]

I wonder how many people here (KB) have actually read 'motorcycle roadcraft', compared to those who read 'twist of the wrist' or similar. Also how many have undergone training from either or both camps?
Boris Roadcraft isnt just about 'technical skill'.. a very basic example of what we were taught.... In town traffic with a line of cars stationary and you decide to undertake (SLOWLY) or, in an urban business hours environment.... looking at the line of parked cars to your left, can you see an indicator going? A person sitting in a vehicle? (cold mornings the exhaust steam) which direction are the front wheels pointing? All indicators of a possible threat situation. When 'undertaking' you'd be assessing BOTH lines of traffic in case of a sudden manoeuvre. Really very common sense stuff, but how many here would even give a seconds thought to this? You may be able to stop effectively having been on a CSS course, but the roadcraft one has given you 'advanced knowledge' of the threat, so it's already avoided or compensated for.

CSS does not teach braking at any of its levels - would you like an information brochure on what it is we do teach? I can send you one. Id like to know more about the Boris Roadcraft school/course do you have info on it?

cheers

[neil_cb125t]

i don't know about anyone else, but the road is f*cken scary after riding on the track lots. I go slower out there more than i ever have.

totally agree!!

[Berries]

Id like to know more about the Boris Roadcraft school/course do you have info on it?

Where do I start?

[BoristheBiter]

I don't have anything against trackdays. They have the ability to teach useful skills.

However, as I've always said, skills learned on the track should only ever be called upon to get yourself out of trouble.

Sadly, all too often trackdays 'skills' are used as a means to get yourself into trouble.

Bollocks, Is that a quote from the "Katman encyclopedia of urban myths"?
Skills don't get you into trouble the rider does something wrong or reads the road/traffic wrong.The skills learnt are what then gets you out in one piece.

I am currently undertaking the IAM rider training program, interestingly one of the guys doing its biggest challenge is unlearning some skills learnt during track training. If you look at track days for learning to better control your motorcycle then they are worth it. The police roadcraft book teaches a system of riding in the road environment. I think the trick is knowing what skill to apply where.

What skills?
Interested to know as I have a hard time going from dirt back to road as I have a tendency to lean the bike and stay up right.

CSS does not teach braking at any of its levels - would you like an information brochure on what it is we do teach? I can send you one. Id like to know more about the Boris Roadcraft school/course do you have info on it?
cheers

Yes the lack of a comer made me sound much better

Where do I start?

By giving red to Katman and Greywolf for their lack of CSS knowledge and their constant attacks on it.

[SVboy]

Keith Code probably has more blood on his hands than any other motorcyclist in history.

Please back that statement up with some facts and figures.

[BoristheBiter]

What a fucken homo.

There is the witty pointless reply we have come to expect. You're such a loser.

[GrayWolf]

Can i Quote you on that.




Had to re-read that post as you haven't said anything i don't disagree with other than you have put it in a most patronising way (i'm guessing that was what you intended).

The way I see it is you are in the "anti-track day camp". no matter of discussion will make you change your stance even in the slightest.

I am of the "if it has the chance to make me a better rider/driver then I will give it a go" camp, and in fact one of my mentors is an ex-police bike rider/instructor so you could say I have read both.

Also I am not some young squid that lives for track days, yes I do enjoy them and why not? they are held by well supervised groups that put safety above anything else.
Yep I get it you don't like them and good for you but before you put down anything maybe you and the rest of the Katman wannabes should go out and try them before going postal on anyone that has a differing opinion.

if you felt it was written in a patronising tone Boris, then that is your own 'emotional filter' at work, it was NOT written in a patronising manner. I was simply using a very basic example of roadcraft teaching to attempt to open discussion up to the difference between track learnt (physical skill) Vs the '(mental skills)' taught by the Roadcraft manual.
I am 'anti track day' in the manner of it being frequently 'pushed' at newbie's and inexperienced riders, who do not yet even have the basic road skills embedded in their cerebellum. You can be taught every tiny skill possible and be highly adept at them, but if you cant read the road? the skills are worth 'shit'. You'll always be a 'reactive', rather than a 'proactive' rider. Your own point that you are not a young squid and use any/all skills somewhat proves my point.. a high number of 'squids' will never learn skills which they percieve as slowing them down. (making progress as opposed to maximum velocity).

Your reaction that I'm along with others a K'man wannabe? As for asking people to red rep, just because people disagree with you?Really just shows that you are as 'anti' as you accuse us of being.

[GrayWolf]

CSS does not teach braking at any of its levels - would you like an information brochure on what it is we do teach? I can send you one. Id like to know more about the Boris Roadcraft school/course do you have info on it?

cheers

So let me understand this Neil, you teach bike handling skills (cornering etc) but dont teach effective braking techniques for the first 2 sessions? Quote " Lastly Students are permitted to use only 1 gear and no brakes (unless required to avoid another rider or the grass) for the first 2 sessions, and that is every student no matter what level."

And I would also like to know about the Boris roadcraft school/course? Mine was done RAC/ACU in the UK. So yes as I have admitted far too long ago, and I KNOW I've developed some bad habits along those years.

[GrayWolf]

Skills don't get you into trouble the rider does something wrong or reads the road/traffic wrong.The skills learnt are what then gets you out in one piece.
By giving red to Katman and Greywolf for their lack of CSS knowledge and their constant attacks on it.

I havent 'attacked' CSS in any way, if discussing the pro's and con's of various training is attacking it? Then good for you Sonny!!

I'll try to say it again clearly as I have obviously failed in any attempt to put across my reasoning...... As you said above the skills you learn get you OUT of trouble. I would 100% agree with you.. REACTIVE to the situation.
The Roadcraft taught in IAM and by Police riding methods teach you to 'see in advance' the threat your skills get you out of.... so if you see it? You negate the need to get out of it.....You have ALREADY taken CORRECTIVE action.

[neil_cb125t]

So let me understand this Neil, you teach bike handling skills (cornering etc) but dont teach effective braking techniques for the first 2 sessions? Quote " Lastly Students are permitted to use only 1 gear and no brakes (unless required to avoid another rider or the grass) for the first 2 sessions, and that is every student no matter what level."

And I would also like to know about the Boris roadcraft school/course? Mine was done RAC/ACU in the UK. So yes as I have admitted far too long ago, and I KNOW I've developed some bad habits along those years.

Your goal as a rider is to stabilise your motorcycle, the only control that does this is the throttle. Brakes are the control that sets a speed for a corner. CSS removes the riders 'crutch' of over using the brakes to allow them to focus on stabilizing the bike. How does your bike feel when your hard on the brakes?

Braking techniques are not taught by CSS australia, the students use the brakes as much as they feel comfortable or require. in the USA Keith designed and uses a Braking bike that teaches students to be able to recover from a front wheel lock up.

We do agree on one point if your taught on how to spot trouble early, and how to steer your bike out its way effectively then you don't need to brake, in fact it would be the last thing on my mind!!

[GrayWolf]

Your goal as a rider is to stabilise your motorcycle, the only control that does this is the throttle. Brakes are the control that sets a speed for a corner. CSS removes the riders 'crutch' of over using the brakes to allow them to focus on stabilizing the bike. How does your bike feel when your hard on the brakes?

Braking techniques are not taught by CSS australia, the students use the brakes as much as they feel comfortable or require. in the USA Keith designed and uses a Braking bike that teaches students to be able to recover from a front wheel lock up.

We do agree on one point if your taught on how to spot trouble early, and how to steer your bike out its way effectively then you don't need to brake, in fact it would be the last thing on my mind!!

Thanks Neil,
you've explained the rational for not applying brakes. Agreed braking can and does affect a bikes stability. I havent applied 'hard braking' on the MT yet outside of getting a feel of it, but then I tend to not ride in the 'point and squirt' fashion. Big V's tend to respond better to selecting a gear and allow the huge reservoir of torque to do the work.

[Deano]

I've now had enough JD's to respond to this - Katman, get fucked!

All other naysayers, try it before you dis it. Or follow Katman and get fucked.

Some people will always try and go faster and kill themselves or fuck themselves up on the road....best to learn how to do it properly/safely? than to charge in blindly.

[tigertim20]

I have a question regarding hire bikes - it sounds like a good deal, but for those of us at opposite ends of the country, factoring in very long rides, extra accommodation etc as well as fuel could make it prohibitively expensive.

Im wondering what the cost is of a hire bike?

[GrayWolf]

I've now had enough JD's to respond to this - Katman, get fucked!

All other naysayers, try it before you dis it. Or follow Katman and get fucked.

Some people will always try and go faster and kill themselves or fuck themselves up on the road....best to learn how to do it properly/safely? than to charge in blindly.

if this is what drinking JD results in? Thank whatever 'higher power' you choose I only drink Single Malt!

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