The California Superbike School has returned to NZ. New website up and running!

[nzspokes]

This is something I would love to do if funds and time allowed. Its a shame the Acc funding of training has fallen down the wrong path. The courses I did with those were very good.

In saying that im looking forward to track days that are coming up soon. I found that way back when I was racing cars I drove on the roads a lot slower. We will see if the same happens on the bike.

Ignore Katman, if your not getting weekly red reps from him your just not trying.

[roogazza]

There are benefits to both sides of this discusson. Neil mentioned the throttle to stabilise, this is true. But brakes do the same, I use the rear lots too.(bikes of old needed it).
Graywolf, is talking defensive driving and a big part of that is the anticipation of hazards, I understand where he's coming from there too.
During my Police career here in NZ, I was given a job in 76 of introducing a more modern approach to driver training. Up until then they had half pie followed the 'Hendon' driving methods
(Hendon Police driving school England).
I've always applied both arguments, the more ability and knowledge the better, I believe.

[jellywrestler]

half pie

mmmmmmmmmm pie, even if it's only half of one...

[slowpoke]

I've always applied both arguments, the more ability and knowledge the better, I believe.

Jeezus, finally some common sense!

Education a bad thing? Fuck me, I thought I'd logged on to NKB (North Korean Biker) for a minute there.

[neil_cb125t]

Thanks Neil,
you've explained the rational for not applying brakes. Agreed braking can and does affect a bikes stability. I havent applied 'hard braking' on the MT yet outside of getting a feel of it, but then I tend to not ride in the 'point and squirt' fashion. Big V's tend to respond better to selecting a gear and allow the huge reservoir of torque to do the work.

Totally - and its better on all things concerned using that torque!

[neil_cb125t]

I have a question regarding hire bikes - it sounds like a good deal, but for those of us at opposite ends of the country, factoring in very long rides, extra accommodation etc as well as fuel could make it prohibitively expensive.

Im wondering what the cost is of a hire bike?

Hey there,

The CSS that was based at Hampton downs did offer hire bikes, this was because suzuki provided the Coach bikes and CSS nz purchased Hire bikes for students in your situation. At this point in time our company has not been provided with Coach bikes so have had to purchase our own coach fleet - meaning we (Black crow promotions) don't have the resources to also purchase bikes for rental.

We REALLY want people like yourself to be able to attend the school, this was one of the reasons we wanted to move away from being locked in to only using Hampton downs. We would love to actually take the school down south for some days down there! it is a hope and something we are working towards.

If your still interested in making the super long trip let me know, I live in Feilding which is 2 hours north of Wellington and have plenty of room for someone to stay whos on the way up! There may even be a way for you to get your bike shipped up to Taupo then you could fly up and meet it there...?

Keep an eye on the facebook page and website because if our bike fleet situation changes it will be announced on there.....Does anybody in taupo want to rent a bike out for a few days

[BoristheBiter]

I havent 'attacked' CSS in any way, if discussing the pro's and con's of various training is attacking it? Then good for you Sonny!!

I'll try to say it again clearly as I have obviously failed in any attempt to put across my reasoning...... As you said above the skills you learn get you OUT of trouble. I would 100% agree with you.. REACTIVE to the situation.
The Roadcraft taught in IAM and by Police riding methods teach you to 'see in advance' the threat your skills get you out of.... so if you see it? You negate the need to get out of it.....You have ALREADY taken CORRECTIVE action.

You are doing it right now.
You are so blinkered about track days that you just can't see it. (that is the point of Katman Wannabes)
Why do you think I haven't said anything about this IAMs course you're going on about, haven't done it so can't comment on it.
You haven't done CSS but are making massive assumptions about it.

Track days do NOT make you reactive. They make you think about what is ahead of you, that's proactive in my book.
Positioning on the track, can be translated straight back to the road (in fact everything can), for set up for the next corner, Sounds like proactive again.
looking through the corner at where you want to go, More proactive thinking.
All in the knowledge that nothing is coming at you, has crossed over the center line or going to pull out on you (OK that sometimes happens)

Yes defensive driving keeps you alive and out of trouble but that is only part of riding a motorcycle.

FYI about my schooling.
MOT defensive driving,
MOT Advanced defensive driving,
Rally school NZ,
Canterbury motor racing school,
CSS levels 1 & 2
AMCC ART days,
Numerous track days, There is always riders around to help you figure stuff out.
Off road coaching with Chris Birch,
Mentoring with another riders - every time I go out for a ride.

See the last one, I am not so stuck to one line of thinking that I can't take ideas from others.
I don't class myself as too big to learn, try it someday and you might be surprised what you can learn.

[Katman]

Positioning on the track, can be translated straight back to the road (in fact everything can), for set up for the next corner,

Tracks don't usually have potholes, dead animals, gravel, oncoming traffic etc. that have to be factored in when choosing a cornering line.

I'm sure CSS is a great opportunity for people looking to improve their track times - but to present it as some sort of Road Safety Course is, frankly, quite laughable.

[schrodingers cat]

Funny old debate.
I think Neil_CB125T has been quite reasonable and moderate in posts and plenty patient in his replies.
Katman and GreyWolf have been fairly detailed in pointing out what they see as percieved failing in a track-day experience.

I'm not sure that arguing that many people on motorcycles ride like wankers and make poor judgements advances either side of the debate.
The attitude you take to a track day will be largely what you leave with IMHO

[BoristheBiter]

Tracks don't usually have potholes, dead animals, gravel, oncoming traffic etc. that have to be factored in when choosing a cornering line.

I'm sure CSS is a great opportunity for people looking to improve their track times - but to present it as some sort of Road Safety Course is, frankly, quite laughable.

that is because you are a closed minded little man.

[ckai]

I don't know about anyone else, but the road is f*cken scary after riding on the track lots. I go slower out there more than I ever have.

Jesus is it what! Couldn't agree more. And I haven't even done a proper track day! Just a hell of a lot of useless, pointless, "race-craft" training in a closed environment...that makes me go super fast

[neil_cb125t]

Tracks don't usually have potholes, dead animals, gravel, oncoming traffic etc. that have to be factored in when choosing a cornering line.

I'm sure CSS is a great opportunity for people looking to improve their track times - but to present it as some sort of Road Safety Course is, frankly, quite laughable.

I did one of those road safety courses once, to reduce the ammount of time spend on my restricted, we watched some video on traffic watching......for 2 nights... can't say I remember it all.

Most schools or training programs that are "controlled" are in a controlled environment. Im in the RNZAF and the police use our runway (closed for flying ops) at Ohakea for rider training. They focus on a completely different type of training for their officers.

The facts are there is still only 10% of the total amount of students at our schools that are racers or track day goers the rest are road riders that ride to the school to learn how to be more effective at operating their bikes.

Heres a you tube clip from the UK school on level 1 - maybe worth a look? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLEyXAftrpw

Nothing wrong with opinions, better to have one and stick to it than swap it every 5 seconds....

[SVboy]

I am finding that it is the balance of work on the track and the skills that that begins to impart combined with training on the British police riders training
system that hopefully is improving my riding by improving my situational awareness and giving me the skills to begin to deal with emergencies if I dont predict or miss them. A twist of the wrist forced me to consider and think thru my many shortcomings as a rider and how to begin to improve both on the track and the road.Road Rider training is forcing me to consider the dangers of the ride outside the track and has given me good "tools" to use. There are many crossovers such as Codes emphasis on periferal vision and "planning" your path thru a corner that are directly applicable to better roadriding imho. By being blinkered and reactionary Katman is doing his credibility no favours tho it seems GW is starting to open his mind to the possibilities that riding skills can be enhanced in many different environments. Katman, you have yet to provide evidence as to the blood on Mr Codes hands.

[SVboy]

PS-Would LOVE to have the CSS do a course down here.

[Katman]

Katman, you have yet to provide evidence as to the blood on Mr Codes hands.

I'm sure there's a great many squids who have taken Keith Code's derision of "chicken strips" to heart and consequently come to grief in the effort of getting rid of them.