Sticky Tar Day

[Zedder]

Why? So they can spread some grit and pea gravel around and make it worse? Haven't seen a decent repair in some 30 years now and call bullshit on the quality of bitumen and binders used now. I'm picking there's one bulk store per region with one grade of bitumen and varying quantities of turps added depending on how far it has to be transported. Every repair I've seen of late has decreased traction, created a significant bump and eventually bleeds over the bleed it was supposed to repair.

What do you suggest then?

[scumdog]

What do you suggest then?

Find out what they use in Alice Springs, Las Vegas and Death Valley.

And use that stuff.

Running tar at 23 degrees is crap, what are they using in NZ? - chewing gum???

[Zedder]

Find out what they use in Alice Springs, Las Vegas and Death Valley.

And use that stuff.

Running tar at 23 degrees is crap, what are they using in NZ? - chewing gum???

The difference between repair needs and year round needs is quite large SD.

[Ocean1]

Yeah, go on.

Was a machine the old MOW built in the late 60's. Had a stainless cowl dangled off the back of a truck, with 6 kerosine burners underneath. The trick was to rock on up to a baldy bit of road and burn the bitumen off the top, exposing the original stones underneath. Worked a treat.

Then some arsehole invented ecology. Which apparently meant you shouldn't make big fuckoff black clouds that blot out the sun for hundreds of kilometres and could be seen from several counties away.

Bastards.

Find out what they use in Alice Springs, Las Vegas and Death Valley.

And use that stuff.

Running tar at 23 degrees is crap, what are they using in NZ? - chewing gum???

Yes, there's no doubt it can be done properly. I strongly suspect the appropriate standards do, in fact represent a fairly good description of how to do it properly. Where the problem probably lies is in making sure the job actually IS done to that standard. I can see how that's more difficult when you've actually go nobody who's responsible for that nowdays where you've got a bunch of contractors doing the job, as opposed to the good old days when the MOW did it all.

[James Deuce]

What do you suggest then?

Build it properly in the first place and then maintain it instead of just ceaselessly patching it. It's ancient history now, but working on MoW roading gangs as a kid does give me an appreciation of the differences between a "proper" repair job and the lowest bid practices used now.

Bleeding tar is easier to see than grit and pea gravel. Leave it bleeding until you can fix it properly.

[scumdog]

The difference between repair needs and year round needs is quite large SD.

Could we not have 'year round needs' that negated repair needs?

[James Deuce]

Could we not have 'year round needs' that negated repair needs?

Like we used to.

[scumdog]

Like we used to.

That's 'use to' James...

[Ocean1]

That's 'use to' James...

JD: one
SD: zip

[Zedder]

Was a machine the old MOW built in the late 60's. Had a stainless cowl dangled off the back of a truck, with 6 kerosine burners underneath. The trick was to rock on up to a baldy bit of road and burn the bitumen off the top, exposing the original stones underneath. Worked a treat.

Then some arsehole invented ecology. Which apparently meant you shouldn't make big fuckoff black clouds that blot out the sun for hundreds of kilometres and could be seen from several counties away.

Bastards.



Yes, there's no doubt it can be done properly. I strongly suspect the appropriate standards do, in fact represent a fairly good description of how to do it properly. Where the problem probably lies is in making sure the job actually IS done to that standard. I can see how that's more difficult when you've actually go nobody who's responsible for that nowdays where you've got a bunch of contractors doing the job, as opposed to the good old days when the MOW did it all.

There's some truth in what you wrote about ecology. As I wrote earlier, no tar is used nowdays due to environmental factors and watercutting has taken the place of the old burner truck.

Yes, NZTA does have a set of standards, which if not adherred to, cost roading companies bucket loads of money. In order to get paid, an engineer has to sign the job off, it's guaranteed for a certain time and contractors don't get paid to fix stuff ups. That's how it was a few years ago anyway.

[scumdog]

JD: one
SD: zip

Really???

[Ocean1]

There's some truth in what you wrote about ecology. As I wrote earlier, no tar is used nowdays due to environmental factors and watercutting has taken the place of the old burner truck.

I believe what's not used nowadays is coal-tar. That's because it's a byproduct of coal gasification, and we don't make domestic gas that way any more. But yes, it raised the pourpoint of bitumen.

Yes, NZTA does have a set of standards, which if not adherred to, cost roading companies bucket loads of money. In order to get paid, an engineer has to sign the job off, it's guaranteed for a certain time and contractors don't get paid to fix stuff ups. That's how it was a few years ago anyway.

Yeah, but contractors make their living cutting corners, they're just better at the game they play with the council. I actually think the contract costing structure is such that they cut costs or die, I've just heard of another local contractor that's had enough, he's gettin g out of the business, can't make it pay.

[Zedder]

I believe what's not used nowadays is coal-tar. That's because it's a byproduct of coal gasification, and we don't make domestic gas that way any more. But yes, it raised the pourpoint of bitumen.



Yeah, but contractors make their living cutting corners, they're just better at the game they play with the council. I actually think the contract costing structure is such that they cut costs or die, I've just heard of another local contractor that's had enough, he's gettin g out of the business, can't make it pay.

Yep, mention tar/coal-tar to a greenie and they freak out but it was really good for roading. Interestingly enough, bitumin is meant to be stable at 30 degrees C.

I don't know of any corner cutting personally but there are actually other causes of road pavement failure, it's not just bitumin going wrong. However, because it's the "glue" it is very important. I

[Daffyd]

Really???

'fraid so.

[unstuck]

Sure was some sticky tar around yesterday, 27 degrees at 10pm last night. The country needs to win lotto to get good roads. Money is the only thing that is going to fix our roads and shitloads of it, but unless we all want to pay a hell of a lot more taxes or something, it aint gonna happen. We are just too small a country to spend the money that needs to be spent.