Property costs in NZ - the heart of evil

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/6...-encouraged-lo

^^^Pretty much looking at that first graph, since you didn't buy a house before 2000/2001, you're fucked sunshine. Yay.

-Indy

[flyingcrocodile46]

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/6...-encouraged-lo

^^^Pretty much looking at that first graph, since you didn't buy a house before 2000/2001, you're fucked sunshine. Yay.

-Indy

I'm more than a little suspicious of the validity of the graph representations given that the first one shows incomes increasing quite a bit faster (and consistently) than the CPI for the last 9 or ten years. I have great difficulty accepting that.

[Indiana_Jones]

Whatever the case it doesn't look good for anyone wanting to buy in Auckland. Catch 22 really, as a lot of the jobs are there.

Supply and demand I guess....

-Indy

[mashman]

Would that be the " glass steagal bill " 1933? which limited the banks from speculative dealing, and slowly eroded until clinton kicked ashes over the coals in 1999, 2000 and by doing so helped the speculative bubble
Still even without that , as soon as you start using fiat money at a rate greater than growth ( working age population) you are going to get price increases ,
while this isnt a "bad thing " when you start getting excesses and or laws that promote such excess ( thank you IMF , aka merica) , then all we are looking at now is the "speed and/or the regularity of these corrections .
Iceland had a good idea , Money ( as we have decided to use it ) brings with it responsibility , and as we all use it and it has potential to cause great hardship. The punishment for failing should be hard , (harsh)
Trouble is money can buy a lot of get out of jail cards especially in merica .

A good start is a capital gains tax on residential properties

all in my Humble opinion


Stephen

Could be, I've not looked into it that deeply. I've learned that history is a pretty poor teacher

heh... I don't think it'll matter what measure we take where money is supposed to be the solution. An FTT on EVERYTHING (including shares instead of money) would be by far the "best" solution. After all, everything "translates" in to monetary format whether is shares, gold or hard currency comrade . Thems that write the rules will leave the loopholes open that they always have on the premise that it's the rich people that make an economy tick. Whilst partially correct, the rich ain't exactly big spenders in regards to small items. Screw the little guy over and they stop buying, can't afford the loans etc... anyway, the loopholes will be left open to allow thems with the money to keep as much of it as possible. Tis the way it has always been, else the loopholes wouldn't exist. It was nothing more than laziness, apart from a wee smidge of utter insanity, when the fractional reserve system was implemented. I understand why we would, but it's gonna go tits at some point. As always though, I'll hope that some fucker finally sees sense and starts to manage the financial system out of existence... we may even have a chance at that point in time.

as yourself, just my humble opinion.

[mashman]

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/6...-encouraged-lo

^^^Pretty much looking at that first graph, since you didn't buy a house before 2000/2001, you're fucked sunshine. Yay.

-Indy

I don't think that pre 2000 is really gonna make a blind bit of difference (maybe a little, heh)... as the guy in the article says, it's how you're leveraged that'll matter. I'm looking forwards to an extended period on the dole, I kinda miss it .

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm looking forwards to an extended period on the dole, I kinda miss it .

Giz a job spec? lol

-Indy

[Brian d marge]

I would look at how Spain has gone belly up , the freeing up of regulations after Franco
Speculative money poured into building and tourism , the tightening of credit and the inability to repay ( NZ is slightly shielded by Australia , who are digging money out of the ground ) now 1/4 of the country unemployed local governments unable to pay even for the basics .
Bailouts offered by the IMF if they can impose IMF austerity ( Bolivia and water,all that will do is benefit a few haliburtons )
If anyone is " foolish" enough to think this won't happen in NZ , or IS happening , well good luck
Here in Japan , we have an excess of oldies , the art of building your way out of the pooo is alive and well, and rampant consumerism is alive and well
What we do have going for us , is low cost housing , read mortgages are over 40 years and the interest is 2/5 of f all ..but as of late I've noticed the prices going up , beer 500ml was 220 a can , now is 280 ish for example , my electricity was18000 last month due to poorly insulated houses and a touch of water in the works
If they introduce the 10% sales tax a lot of people will go to the wall....
What ( if we are going to follow this consumerist path) we need to do is , remove speculation on residential housing , bring back sensible government departments on essential utilities and remove taxes from basic healthy food,
That's crap that is too difficult, a carrot is a carrot ffs
Finally , start telling outside influences to fk off , IMF, world wank
This will free up disposable income in the average kiwis pocket ...of which they will spend ....
Stephen

[jonbuoy]

I would look at how Spain has gone belly up , the freeing up of regulations after Franco
Speculative money poured into building and tourism , the tightening of credit and the inability to repay ( NZ is slightly shielded by Australia , who are digging money out of the ground ) now 1/4 of the country unemployed local governments unable to pay even for the basics .
Bailouts offered by the IMF if they can impose IMF austerity ( Bolivia and water,all that will do is benefit a few haliburtons )
If anyone is " foolish" enough to think this won't happen in NZ , or IS happening , well good luck
Here in Japan , we have an excess of oldies , the art of building your way out of the pooo is alive and well, and rampant consumerism is alive and well
What we do have going for us , is low cost housing , read mortgages are over 40 years and the interest is 2/5 of f all ..but as of late I've noticed the prices going up , beer 500ml was 220 a can , now is 280 ish for example , my electricity was18000 last month due to poorly insulated houses and a touch of water in the works
If they introduce the 10% sales tax a lot of people will go to the wall....
What ( if we are going to follow this consumerist path) we need to do is , remove speculation on residential housing , bring back sensible government departments on essential utilities and remove taxes from basic healthy food,
That's crap that is too difficult, a carrot is a carrot ffs
Finally , start telling outside influences to fk off , IMF, world wank
This will free up disposable income in the average kiwis pocket ...of which they will spend ....
Stephen

Or go back to the old mortgage calculation - 2.5 x your annual gross income. Would stop people being able to borrow more than they can comfortably afford. It wont help with foreign owners snapping up properties but I don´t think a huge number of immigrants are arriving with enough cash to buy a house outright so they must be borrowing from somewhere. Average house price in Auckland being $500K doesnt really add up to an affordable mortgage. Can´t go on climbing at this rate forever.

[Indiana_Jones]

Or go back to the old mortgage calculation - 2.5 x your annual gross income.

So say your average income was 60k (we'll be generous), that's a mortgage of 150k, not many houses in Auckland for 150k lol

Can´t go on climbing at this rate forever.

And you'd think so, but it still does. I doubt much will change any time soon.

-Indy

[jonbuoy]

Exactly Indie 20% deposit adds a bit to the pot plus other savings. I think one thing the US has proven is that not everyone can/should be a homeowner.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I recently heard a rumour that there is a bill under review (third reading) that National are looking to sign off on, and which should severely reduce or eliminate the Councils ability to impose levies for amenities parks & reserves contributions etc for new sections and building consents. They currently add ten$ of thou$and$ to building costs. I haven't checked it out to establish the details but have my fingers crossed.

[Brian d marge]

then, where will the council get the monies from, ,speak easies , illegal booze and tabacco or extortionate rates

stephen

spain an economic miracle coming to you real soon
bought to you by bankers who care

[mashman]

Giz a job spec? lol

-Indy

As long as you can communicate that you can do that, you'll be fine

[mashman]

I would look at how Spain has gone belly up , the freeing up of regulations after Franco
Speculative money poured into building and tourism , the tightening of credit and the inability to repay ( NZ is slightly shielded by Australia , who are digging money out of the ground ) now 1/4 of the country unemployed local governments unable to pay even for the basics .
Bailouts offered by the IMF if they can impose IMF austerity ( Bolivia and water,all that will do is benefit a few haliburtons )
If anyone is " foolish" enough to think this won't happen in NZ , or IS happening , well good luck
Here in Japan , we have an excess of oldies , the art of building your way out of the pooo is alive and well, and rampant consumerism is alive and well
What we do have going for us , is low cost housing , read mortgages are over 40 years and the interest is 2/5 of f all ..but as of late I've noticed the prices going up , beer 500ml was 220 a can , now is 280 ish for example , my electricity was18000 last month due to poorly insulated houses and a touch of water in the works
If they introduce the 10% sales tax a lot of people will go to the wall....
What ( if we are going to follow this consumerist path) we need to do is , remove speculation on residential housing , bring back sensible government departments on essential utilities and remove taxes from basic healthy food,
That's crap that is too difficult, a carrot is a carrot ffs
Finally , start telling outside influences to fk off , IMF, world wank
This will free up disposable income in the average kiwis pocket ...of which they will spend ....
Stephen

I'm gonna be interested to see where we go from here. Primarily because most of the products that are produced these days are upgrades and nothing really new (just smaller). Where once we have automation innovation, is there really that much out there these days that improves efficiency so radically that people will spend yet more money on it? I am wondering if too many people's interest in "stuff" has peaked (along with affordability). We're not producing anything of value, a phone is a phone is a phone, a tablet is a tablet is a tablet and being able to afford a house seems to be so far out of reach that people will eventually just give up, especially if the jobs where the cheap houses are won't even cover that mortgage. All of those things, and many more, pumped new money into the system which is the name of the game. I woulda thought mortgages where a great vehicle for pumping new money into the system.

[flyingcrocodile46]

then, where will the council get the monies from, ,speak easies , illegal booze and tabacco or extortionate rates

stephen

spain an economic miracle coming to you real soon
bought to you by bankers who care

The Govt has already limited their ability to raise rates as they please, so I think the aim is to force them to stop spending money on things that aren't affordable, rationalise services, seek funding through donations (rather than taxes/levies etc) and learn to live within budgets that ratepayers can afford.