Insurance advice about tread depth

[FJRider]

that's like having one beer and driving happily and safely drinking more while driving then being surprised at being pulled up drunk driving, i wonder if that's hold up in a court of law???

just cause you have a warrant and the front end starts clunking or similar doesn't mean it's still warrantable does it!!!

It's been tried ... and failed ... apparently

But the sticker says it's legal ....

[Ocean1]

If somebody can't figure that out, they have no place on a motorcycle.... I'll give you a hint though, it's probably slower than 'your' (his/my/somebodies) ego thinks. As far as far as figuring out the ultimate limit goes, the track is definitely the right place, but the track isn't magical and so still need to pay attention to the condition of your machine, arguably more so.

"Suitable" is a bit fuzzy, eh? I assume it means "somewhat slower than dangerous".

My point was that conditions change, they can cover a wide range of goodness, and there's a shitload of them. So sometimes, even on the same corner/machine the difference between "suitable" and dangerous is not a lot.

That being the case it's hardly surprising that people arse off, they often don't know when a normally"suitable" speed for the location becomes dangerous because of changes in a vast number of current conditions. So doesn't it make more sense to have them learn what happens at speeds aproaching dangerous? More particularly what clues the bike can give you that it's time to back off?

Doesn't that give them a more usefull skill than simply guessing that X speed is OK for this corner because it's been OK on a similar one some time ago? Or worse, the guy in front thinks it's OK.

In fact let's ask, eh? See if we can get a list. What are the best clues your bike gives that you're aproaching the limit of traction?

[imdying]

Oh yeah, conditions are changing all the time on the track... arse off on oil did he?

[onearmedbandit]

But no track day is safe from ALL risk.

A rained off one is.

[Gremlin]

Star Insurance through Kiwibike, is it?
Damn, I'm on Kiwibike as well.

Kiwibike is a broker, so you need to find out who your insurance has been arranged with (give Dave or one of the team a call, they're always happy to help), as it could be Star, Swann, Protecta or others.

As with any broker, they're not magical, and it's up to you to check the terms of your policy with the insurer. Being with Kiwibike doesn't mean all the rules change, but they certainly go into bat on our behalf at times.

[FJRider]

My point was that conditions change, they can cover a wide range of goodness, and there's a shitload of them. So sometimes, even on the same corner/machine the difference between "suitable" and dangerous is not a lot.

That being the case it's hardly surprising that people arse off, they often don't know when a normally"suitable" speed for the location becomes dangerous because of changes in a vast number of current conditions. So doesn't it make more sense to have them learn what happens at speeds aproaching dangerous? More particularly what clues the bike can give you that it's time to back off?

Doesn't that give them a more usefull skill than simply guessing that X speed is OK for this corner because it's been OK on a similar one some time ago? Or worse, the guy in front thinks it's OK.

It's different on the open road ... the law says it's safe at 100 km/hr. ... no need for "useful skills" ... exceed THAT at your peril ... right .. ??

Or have I got it wrong ... again .. ???

[Ocean1]

Oh yeah, conditions are changing all the time on the track... arse off on oil did he?

No Idea. He obviously didn't either, or he wouldn't have ended up on his arse.

You're not very helpful. Gwarn mate, tell him how to decide what's a suitable speed, eh? Must be pretty obvious if all the guns are so fucking cock sure of themselves.

[Marmoot]

Kiwibike is a broker, so you need to find out who your insurance has been arranged with (give Dave or one of the team a call, they're always happy to help), as it could be Star, Swann, Protecta or others.

As with any broker, they're not magical, and it's up to you to check the terms of your policy with the insurer. Being with Kiwibike doesn't mean all the rules change, but they certainly go into bat on our behalf at times.

Good point.

[AllanB]

Sounds like the policy is clear re WOF standard and track days. It is a contract accepted between both parties and in this case you have not lived up to your side of the agreement by using your motorcycle with a non WOFable rear tyre.

Also in relationship to road use of your MC - the same applies re insurance - it must be up to WOF standard when being used. Being a adult in charge of that motorcycle means you are responisable to ensure it is up to standard not rely on a check done 6 monts ago ...........

Out of interest which bike shop dropped you in it telling your insurer about the tyre ........

[YellowDog]

I think you would need a statement from your tyre manufacture stating it was safe and didn't contribute to your off

Surely a statement from the track marshalls, being the higher authority in this particular case, would carry more weight.

I must however say that having experienced riding with tyres at the legal tread limit in wet and windy conditions, I would not ever do it again

[rossirep]

that's like having one beer and driving happily and safely drinking more while driving then being surprised at being pulled up drunk driving, i wonder if that's hold up in a court of law???

just cause you have a warrant and the front end starts clunking or similar doesn't mean it's still warrantable does it!!!

its nothing like drink driving mate.
noone really changes their tyres when there is still plenty of tread left on them do they.? they wait till they are had it and then ya get a new one. they aint cheap and ya wanna get ya moneys worth.
just sounds like the insurace guys just tryin to get out of paying..!!!
who are they again..?? bald tyres with canvas showing thru is one thing, but being alil below min depth is another..

[Teflon]

Sorry to hear about your bike. Sounds like the tyre had heaps of life left! I only ever change mine when canvas starts to show... But, most likely
I would have changed the tyre before the appraisal, and replace any dodgy looking shit (plus giving it a few love taps just to make sure).

Good luck.

[FJRider]

its nothing like drink driving mate.
noone really changes their tyres when there is still plenty of tread left on them do they.? they wait till they are had it and then ya get a new one. they aint cheap and ya wanna get ya moneys worth.
just sounds like the insurace guys just tryin to get out of paying..!!!
who are they again..?? bald tyres with canvas showing thru is one thing, but being alil below min depth is another..

Quite a lot like drink driving actually. You are MUCH more likely to crash if you've been drinking/low on rubber.

Low tread means a weaker tyre ... it wont hold its shape as well ... road contact patch gets smaller as it distorts. Punctures/blowouts are more likely when the tread is low too.

I know of plenty that did "one more ride before the new tyre" ... and binned it. And a few that died from it.

My life is more than the "Moneys worth" left on the old tyre. Your life must be cheap if you think it is.

The OP had agreed deal with the Insurance company. Now wants to renege on that agreement. And a surprising number of people think he should.

[R650R]

Don't normally run tyres too low but the last one was feeling flat when it wa down to wear indicators (brand name 180/55/17), stopped pressures ok, just the centre of carcass was weak as and flexing heaps. With the speeds your doing at a track day you shouldn't have even been let out on a road tyre with low tread.
But it all boils down to the words in the contract because that is all that will matter in court. If it says wof standard then thats whats required as others have said.
Btw don't forget to mention this incident on your next renewal under "Have you had a claim rejected/denied?" as not disclosing stuff is a definate party stopper. I'll ask my friend who is a broker but I don't think she will say anything different.
BTW how much does track insurance cost? Has anyone ever had recompense from a crash caused by someone else at a track day? Are you liable?

[el_scor_cho]

Star Insurance through Kiwibike, is it?
Damn, I'm on Kiwibike as well.

Dave from Kiwibike, tell me this is not right?

Yes I am dealing with Dave but dont get me wrong, he has been nothing but awesome and very easy to deal with. He is the one that suggested I obtain an independent report to give a bit of weight to my case.

Independent assessor from Star checked it out and picked up on the tire now its up to me to prove him wrong...

I am simply wanting to get opinions and advice. I am no insurance sage and really not sure if I have a case or not. From a bit of reading it seems 50/50 as I do not believe the low tread in the centre contributed to my accident. I am not saying I have been cheated out of any payment or that the accident wasnt my fault.

Kiwibike simply up my excess a bit for track cover. I transfered from Golightly as they didnt offer track cover