Points scale

[wharfy]

-There are a number of riders in our catchment area that do not go 600's or Supers at National level because they risk being caught up in someone else's 2,3 or 4 way battle at the front, do you not actually understand the dangers inherent in that?
And just cause I don't go rubbing myself on Stroud, does not mean I don't get to have an opinion, right or wrong

Round two Tri-series, last corner, last lap 3 riders (all possible national title winners) going for the win, 2 riders being lapped...
Watching from the stand it was like some slowmo horror flick. I could see them all converging until they dissapeard behind the tyre wall of the hairpin - a big cloud of dust - 4 riders come out the other side, a top contender out for the rest of the season.
That's why I don't do nationals, I don't want to be that lapped rider, even if you do nothing wrong, just hold your line as the rule book says you would feel like shit....

[tail_end_charlie]

Round one Tri-series, last corner, last lap 3 riders (all possible national title winners) going for the win, 2 riders being lapped...
Watching from the stand it was like some slowmo horror flick. I could see them all converging until they dissapeard behind the tyre wall of the hairpin - a big cloud of dust - 4 riders come out the other side, a top contender out for the rest of the season.
That's why I don't do nationals, I don't want to be that lapped rider, even if you do nothing wrong, just hold your line as the rule book says you would feel like shit....

Just to clarify, wasn't that Rd 2 at Manfield?

[wharfy]

Just to clarify, wasn't that Rd 2 at Manfield?

Yeah it was -

[jellywrestler]

-If you need the concept of "depth" explained, it is allready too late.i have an idea just wanted to hear your definition
-You don't follow rugby...... rugby is a business first and a sport second and their sporting discipline and behaviour is dismal and doesn't interest me
-There are a number of riders in our catchment area that do not go 600's or Supers at National level because they risk being caught up in someone else's 2,3 or 4 way battle at the front, do you not actually understand the dangers inherent in that? i understands the risks just your earlier wording didn't clarify why they weren't doing it.most sports have a tiered level of abilitites, if they're not up to racing at that level then there's clubmans, they can still get to and be part of the meeting if they want to. With the top six at one stage at levels in the 600's all from Canterbury they're not actually short of people to follow and learn from etc are they
-Drop 1 practice, make it 3 10 lap races, costs do not change and you expose the grid to the risk of increased numbers, and the risk of begining to create................................ depth.they asked the riders in those classes what they want, this is what they wanted.

I still don't get the lack of depth of field, given the size of new zealand etc things ain't perfect but not dismal at the same time

over the last few weeks I've seen

a rider come through from 8th to first on the track in 600 supersport

a motard race with five different leaders over the race

125 racing where you could nearly throw a blanket over five bikes at the end of the race

in one superbike race there were 5 different fastest riders (with three of our top riders sidelined A Stroud R Clee & J Ross) this is with Bugden riding and he's set a couple of poles in aussie

approx 12 new riders to win their first ever points races this year in all classes

[quickbuck]

I still don't get the lack of depth of field, given the size of new zealand etc things ain't perfect but not dismal at the same time

over the last few weeks I've seen

a rider come through from 7th to first on the track in 600 supersport

a motard race with five different leaders over the race

125 racing where you could nearly throw a blanket over five bikes at the end of the race

in one superbike race there were 5 different fastest riders (with three of our top riders sidelined A Stroud R Clee & J Ross) this is with Bugden riding and he's set a couple of poles in aussie

approx 12 new riders to win their first ever points races this year in all classes

Loving those Stats....
Awesome time to be involved in the sport....

Actually, it is Motor Cycle Racing... So it's almost always awesome....

[wharfy]

I still don't get the lack of depth of field, given the size of new zealand etc things ain't perfect but not dismal at the same time

DEPTH = the distance from the top to the bottom of something.

OK here goes - one more time (rugby as the comparison but in NZ sailing would probably do as well)

England has over 2 million rugby players (from rugby world cup website)
New Zealand has less than 137,000 (from same website)

Despite our comparatively small pool of players -
New Zealand can field a team with our 3rd choice 1st five (a critical position) and still be competitive, this can apply to almost any position in the team
Any of the top 100 NZ rugby players could get a contract in England playing professional rugby for really BIG money (and many do after their AB days).

i.e. WE HAVE DEPTH TALENT in rugby.


We have less than half a dozen superbike riders that can even come close to the Aussie 3rd place guy !

Fuck if you selected the top 100 superbike racers in NZ you would probably have to include ME !!! (based on about the 80th fastest time round the cemetery circuit )

WE have had and do have a number of talented individuals, some have even won world championships - but we don't have hordes of world class motorcycle racers lining up to get seats in motogp or moto2 or moto3 or red bull rookies cup or ....
Even the dirt bike guys can only occasionally get a rider into the running for a world championship.
WE have NO DEPTH the TALENT only extends to the top dozen or so racers in the country

[gixerracer]

DEPTH = the distance from the top to the bottom of something.

OK here goes - one more time (rugby as the comparison but in NZ sailing would probably do as well)

England has over 2 million rugby players (from rugby world cup website)
New Zealand has less than 137,000 (from same website)

Despite our comparatively small pool of players -
New Zealand can field a team with our 3rd choice 1st five (a critical position) and still be competitive, this can apply to almost any position in the team
Any of the top 100 NZ rugby players could get a contract in England playing professional rugby for really BIG money (and many do after their AB days).

i.e. WE HAVE DEPTH TALENT in rugby.


We have less than half a dozen superbike riders that can even come close to the Aussie 3rd place guy !

Fuck if you selected the top 100 superbike racers in NZ you would probably have to include ME !!! (based on about the 80th fastest time round the cemetery circuit )

WE have had and do have a number of talented individuals, some have even won world championships - but we don't have hordes of world class motorcycle racers lining up to get seats in motogp or moto2 or moto3 or red bull rookies cup or ....
Even the dirt bike guys can only occasionally get a rider into the running for a world championship.
WE have NO DEPTH the TALENT only extends to the top dozen or so racers in the country

Talent as nothing to do with NZ not having world series riders. It is all about money as it is a business just like ugby- I would say Simon Crafar and Aaron Slight were the last to get in the big league based on talent and even one of them had a very long hard gring to get in the top ranks. If you have one guy with talent any other rider can come along and buy his ride from under him its just bollockes really

[CHOPPA]

Surely you all should be able to work out the complexities in why its harder to have depth in a sport like motorcycle racing when its so expensive, dangerous, limited practice time and limited career path. You cant just rely on your genes...

I think we all do pretty bloody well and there are good fields. It would be nice to see more people racing. If you get lapped thats part of racing, you shouldnt feel bad or not race for that reason. It is part of racing and we all have the same right to be on the track

We all just do this because we LOVE it!

My advice to young guys would be to get a good job or trade because there is no future in racing bikes, just do it because you love it.

I work with Sam Croft and although I think its a great opportunity for him to do the EJC, I cant understand spending $80k in 6 months when he could stay home earn money buy a 600 race it for 3 years and still have enough money left over to a 2 month trip around europe... If he wins he will get a ride on a 600 in europe but it will still cost 50k minimum to stay there and ride it, after 5 years and about half a mill he might start getting paid if he is consistantly in the front. if he comes second he will come home to no ride, no bike just crossed fingers someone will give him a ride

*You know I just want you to stay at work and not leave me alone with the retards aye Sam??

[steveyb]

Wharfys comments about depth in NZ racing are on the money, but so are Choppas. And funnily enough, gixxerracer knows a thing or two too. The world of talent alone getting you a ride in an elite series (even Rookies Cup it seems) are well and truely over. EVERYONE has to bring money to the table, even Lorenzo and Rossi. If it is not out of Dads pocket, then it is from personal sponsors. Understand that well.

As I have oft commented (for what it is worth, which admittedly may not be much):
If you want to be world champion, go to Europe (but move there to make a life, not necessarily whip over for one series or so, and you have to be already on the ladder at 12-14 yrs old. That is simply the reality of much sport now not just bike racing).
If you want to make money, go to USA (although that might not be so great these days, but it will come back, that is just the nature of the American way).
If you want to have a hard time and spend plenty, go to Australia (from the horses mouth, we actually get more support at grass-roots level than they do in Australia).
If you want to have fun racing bikes and a not so bad lifestyle, stay in NZ.

BUT, and there is always one, money is just money. It is a tool to be used to provide the things in life that an individual wants or needs.
And funnily enough, for someone who has at least some wherewithall, money has a habit of turning up when you need it the most. It is not always easy, but it usually works out.

AND, opportunities often come but once in life, twice if you are lucky or plan well.

So, the EJC opportunity for Sam (and many others like him) is likely to be available just once, or twice if they are in the right place at the right time.

So, my own opinion, while agreeing strongly in principle with Choppa, is to seize the opportunity if you can (by working hard to find the support, whatever type that might be) and when you can. Never die wondering, is the cliche. Carpe diem.

BUT be very realistic about what the end-game might or will be.
Plan carefully for what happens afterwards, whatever the outcome.

If you do go to Europe for EJC or something like it, why not look around to stay there for some years, rather than just coming straight back here?
Find work while you are there, base yourself in a tax haven (e.g. Andorra, Monaco, Lichtenstein) or out east (Czech, Poland, Slovenia, Romania) rather than in London.
Learn to speak some francais, deutsch, italiano, or espanol, etc. Having english only will not endear you to continental based teams and owners.
Put good back-up plans in place and don't just fly by the seat of your pants, as your pants can easily be down-trou'd.

But after all that, when these young riders get that experience and do come home, hopefully they will continue to race here (many from the older days have/did not continue for whatever reasons) and raise the bar, and increase the depth and maybe open doors for other young riders to follow them.

Good luck. We will all be rooting for ya's.

[wharfy]

Talent as nothing to do with NZ not having world series riders. It is all about money as it is a business just like ugby- I would say Simon Crafar and Aaron Slight were the last to get in the big league based on talent and even one of them had a very long hard gring to get in the top ranks. If you have one guy with talent any other rider can come along and buy his ride from under him its just bollockes really

Yeah, I know that the All blacks don't wear addidas boots (or whatever) because they are the best they wear them because addidas paid the NZRFU the most. However I must admit to being a bit surprised (disappointed maybe ) when I read Aaron Slights book and he said he had to use after market parts that degraded the performance of the bike because a sponsor paid BIG bucks for them to be used, and that was a decade ago in WSBK
As for somebody with less talent being able to buy your ride out from under you - that IS very sucky..

Surely you all should be able to work out the complexities in why its harder to have depth in a sport like motorcycle racing when its so expensive, dangerous, limited practice time and limited career path. You cant just rely on your genes...

I think we all do pretty bloody well and there are good fields. It would be nice to see more people racing. If you get lapped thats part of racing, you shouldnt feel bad or not race for that reason. It is part of racing and we all have the same right to be on the track

We all just do this because we LOVE it!

My advice to young guys would be to get a good job or trade because there is no future in racing bikes, just do it because you love it.

I work with Sam Croft and although I think its a great opportunity for him to do the EJC, I cant understand spending $80k in 6 months when he could stay home earn money buy a 600 race it for 3 years and still have enough money left over to a 2 month trip around europe... If he wins he will get a ride on a 600 in europe but it will still cost 50k minimum to stay there and ride it, after 5 years and about half a mill he might start getting paid if he is consistantly in the front. if he comes second he will come home to no ride, no bike just crossed fingers someone will give him a ride

*You know I just want you to stay at work and not leave me alone with the retards aye Sam??

Well some on here take some convincing we don't have depth - never mind why
As you say there are a number of reasons, none of them trivial

Wharfys comments about depth in NZ racing are on the money, but so are Choppas. And funnily enough, gixxerracer knows a thing or two too. The world of talent alone getting you a ride in an elite series (even Rookies Cup it seems) are well and truely over. EVERYONE has to bring money to the table, even Lorenzo and Rossi. If it is not out of Dads pocket, then it is from personal sponsors. Understand that well.

As I have oft commented (for what it is worth, which admittedly may not be much):
If you want to be world champion, go to Europe (but move there to make a life, not necessarily whip over for one series or so, and you have to be already on the ladder at 12-14 yrs old. That is simply the reality of much sport now not just bike racing).
If you want to make money, go to USA (although that might not be so great these days, but it will come back, that is just the nature of the American way).
If you want to have a hard time and spend plenty, go to Australia (from the horses mouth, we actually get more support at grass-roots level than they do in Australia).
If you want to have fun racing bikes and a not so bad lifestyle, stay in NZ.

BUT, and there is always one, money is just money. It is a tool to be used to provide the things in life that an individual wants or needs.
And funnily enough, for someone who has at least some wherewithall, money has a habit of turning up when you need it the most. It is not always easy, but it usually works out.

AND, opportunities often come but once in life, twice if you are lucky or plan well.

So, the EJC opportunity for Sam (and many others like him) is likely to be available just once, or twice if they are in the right place at the right time.

So, my own opinion, while agreeing strongly in principle with Choppa, is to seize the opportunity if you can (by working hard to find the support, whatever type that might be) and when you can. Never die wondering, is the cliche. Carpe diem.

BUT be very realistic about what the end-game might or will be.
Plan carefully for what happens afterwards, whatever the outcome.

If you do go to Europe for EJC or something like it, why not look around to stay there for some years, rather than just coming straight back here?
Find work while you are there, base yourself in a tax haven (e.g. Andorra, Monaco, Lichtenstein) or out east (Czech, Poland, Slovenia, Romania) rather than in London.
Learn to speak some francais, deutsch, italiano, or espanol, etc. Having english only will not endear you to continental based teams and owners.
Put good back-up plans in place and don't just fly by the seat of your pants, as your pants can easily be down-trou'd.

But after all that, when these young riders get that experience and do come home, hopefully they will continue to race here (many from the older days have/did not continue for whatever reasons) and raise the bar, and increase the depth and maybe open doors for other young riders to follow them.

Good luck. We will all be rooting for ya's.

Yeah if you get that chance give it a crack - Trust me - when your laying in the recovery position, waiting for an ambulance knowing there is a better that even chance you will be cold before it arrives - you are NOT wishing you saved all that money you spent on racing

A couple of lines from great songs sum it up:
"You never understood that it ain't no good, you shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you" - Bob Dylan
" Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention" - Frank Sinatra (although I don't think he wrote it )