New Ngauranga camera

**oneofsix** · 22nd February 2013, 06:27

Originally Posted by davereid

The danger isn't one of being unregistered, having no WOF etc. Just get thoses things, or get a single plate you can use on all your vehicles.

The danger is the gradual creep of the surveillance state.

Right now we can say glib things like "what do you have to worry about if you are not breaking the law?"

Trouble is, at various times, the law has made it illegal to dance if you are irish, breast feed if you are maori, be in a union or not be in a union.

I am always nervous when the state gives itself tools like this.

That is the wider picture and applies more to things like the governments plan allow more information sharing between departments to "combat benefit fraud" (another thread so please don't discuss here). However I can see where this and the CCTV traffic cameras down the ~~gorge~~ along SH1 could be mis-used in future as the government tries to control more and more of your personal life. But right now this is about traffic cameras with the sharing of the information limited to the police, they are the only ones with access to these photos - right?

**FJRider** · 22nd February 2013, 06:55

Originally Posted by davereid

The danger isn't one of being unregistered, having no WOF etc. Just get thoses things, or get a single plate you can use on all your vehicles.

The danger is the gradual creep of the surveillance state.

Right now we can say glib things like "what do you have to worry about if you are not breaking the law?"

Trouble is, at various times, the law has made it illegal to dance if you are irish, breast feed if you are maori, be in a union or not be in a union.

I am always nervous when the state gives itself tools like this.

They can also be used to track (stolen/wanted) vehicles along those monitored roads .... prior to and after any reported incident/accident on those roads. They are not solely for the issue of infringement notices. So they may well be to YOUR advantage as well at some future time.

Only those with things to hide need worry.

**oneofsix** · 22nd February 2013, 07:07

Originally Posted by FJRider

Only those with things to hide need worry.

yeah but when you have to hide just due to a your believe be it religious or political or because of your colour or what ever other reason the powers that be pick on it is plan wrong, making that and the "done nothing wrong" one the most dangerous platitudes around.

**Scuba_Steve** · 22nd February 2013, 07:22

Originally Posted by rustic101

I'd suggest one of the 18 monitored CCTV cameras in the gorge is actually looking at that camera. Good luck to the person that tries it on....

I did mention darkness in the ingredients + a balaclava/helmet is an optional recommendation when bringing justice to the corrupt overlords

**Zedder** · 22nd February 2013, 08:02

Originally Posted by Berries

Have you seen Riverdance?

FFS.

He's right though, it was illegal at one time. As were many other liberties.

**Zedder** · 22nd February 2013, 08:13

Originally Posted by FJRider

They can also be used to track (stolen/wanted) vehicles along those monitored roads .... prior to and after any reported incident/accident on those roads. They are not solely for the issue of infringement notices. So they may well be to YOUR advantage as well at some future time.

Only those with things to hide need worry.

Yep, they are there for other things apart from infringment issuing. Ultimately it's about expediency and economic use of resources.

The anti "only those with things to hide need to worry" people might want to think about the law and order these systems allow also.

Sure it can go the other way, some say it has, but until the fully armed cops and fully kitted out army outnumber us and take away our guns, computers and cell phones plus other means of communication, then it's probably not something to worry about too much.

**FJRider** · 22nd February 2013, 15:14

Originally Posted by oneofsix

yeah but when you have to hide just due to a your believe be it religious or political or because of your colour or what ever other reason the powers that be pick on it is plan wrong, making that and the "done nothing wrong" one the most dangerous platitudes around.

English translation please.

Or edit it so it can be understood ... what it is you are trying to say ...

**Cammey** · 22nd February 2013, 17:58

Originally Posted by FJRider

English translation please.

Or edit it so it can be understood ... what it is you are trying to say ...

He has read history. He knows that benevolent governments are an aberration, and that all governments eventually turn on their people. My Dad was a Watersider, he went on strike in 1951, wanting the 15 hour day reduced to 8 hours. The government of the day locked out union members, and used the army. They then denied him any benefits, made his union an illegal organisation and made it illegal to give money, food, or support of any kind to the strikers. Kiwis ignored the government, and supported the laid off workers. That was possible because the government didnt have the ability to enforce laws that most people thought were abhorrent. But now, these types of technology allow the government to pass unpopular laws, and enforce them effectively, even if they have no public support.

**Ocean1** · 22nd February 2013, 18:12

One of the stated purposes of the new rigs is to allow automatic speed related pingings. If your number turns up in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 10:40 you'll be getting a ticket in the mail. If that's 10:00 and 10:50 you'll still be getting a ticket because there's several bits of <100kph involved. But here's the thing: if they adopt all of the elements of the UK system ours is modeled from and your numbers snapped in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 11:00 you'll also be getting a ticket, even though the various speed limits over their respective distances add up to less than 60min. The rationale is that while it might be mathmaticaly possible for you to have obeyed the speed limit it's "statistically unlikely" that you did.

What we're seeing, here is a natural extension of the already seriously eroded right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty: the assumption of guilt without factual proof. Is anyone stupid enough to believe there won't be any further steps in this direction?

**awa355** · 22nd February 2013, 19:01

Originally Posted by Ocean1

One of the stated purposes of the new rigs is to allow automatic speed related pingings. If your number turns up in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 10:40 you'll be getting a ticket in the mail. If that's 10:00 and 10:50 you'll still be getting a ticket because there's several bits of <100kph involved. But here's the thing: if they adopt all of the elements of the UK system ours is modeled from and your numbers snapped in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 11:00 you'll also be getting a ticket, even though the various speed limits over their respective distances add up to less than 60min. The rationale is that while it might be mathmaticaly possible for you to have obeyed the speed limit it's "statistically unlikely" that you did.

What we're seeing, here is a natural extension of the already seriously eroded right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty: the assumption of guilt without factual proof. Is anyone stupid enough to believe there won't be any further steps in this direction?

If they get this survelance system complete to this level, the police could always get Mark Lundy to test it for them.

**rustic101** · 22nd February 2013, 19:15

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

I did mention darkness in the ingredients + a balaclava/helmet is an optional recommendation when bringing justice to the corrupt overlords

Lol fair point maybe I forgot to mention the CCTV cameras see in the dark and go further a field than just the gorge at some point along the way the 'Man' will get ya

**Zedder** · 22nd February 2013, 19:21

Originally Posted by Ocean1

One of the stated purposes of the new rigs is to allow automatic speed related pingings. If your number turns up in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 10:40 you'll be getting a ticket in the mail. If that's 10:00 and 10:50 you'll still be getting a ticket because there's several bits of <100kph involved. But here's the thing: if they adopt all of the elements of the UK system ours is modeled from and your numbers snapped in Ngauranga at 10:00 and Otaki at 11:00 you'll also be getting a ticket, even though the various speed limits over their respective distances add up to less than 60min. The rationale is that while it might be mathmaticaly possible for you to have obeyed the speed limit it's "statistically unlikely" that you did.

What we're seeing, here is a natural extension of the already seriously eroded right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty: the assumption of guilt without factual proof. Is anyone stupid enough to believe there won't be any further steps in this direction?

Innocent until proven guilty actually means it is up to the prosecution to prove their case. Is anyone stupid enough to believe it means anything else?

**Coldrider** · 22nd February 2013, 19:44

Originally Posted by Zedder

Innocent until proven guilty actually means it is up to the prosecution to prove their case. Is anyone stupid enough to believe it means anything else?

Mark Lundy could set the times.

**Ocean1** · 22nd February 2013, 20:19

Originally Posted by Zedder

Innocent until proven guilty actually means it is up to the prosecution to prove their case. Is anyone stupid enough to believe it means anything else?

Yeah, I did have you in mind when I asked that. Try failing to defend a traffic ticket, fuckwit, and then go see how much proof it took to convict you.